Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics

#111

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

liability wrote: post #68

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in socialist countries there was no index that would spell out explicitly what is strictly verboten. Ordinary people were expected to know that via hints and rumours. Well if the official media was calling genetics nasty names then that was a strong indicator that genetics is verboten. I guess that the media used to be more directly orchestrated.

Centralized orchestration is certainly a possibility. I think it's far from certain though, because the observed effect of uniform messaging could also be explained as emergent behaviour. Centralized coordination is probably more likely in some countries, and emergent swarming seems more likely in others. But either way, the end result is pretty similar.

I think it is more a difference in editorial style rather than in substance: all media outlets still have an editor who in turn has to answer to the owner of a news outlet - an author can't always write just the stuff that he wants and also get his work published, don't think it works like this.

In other words I find it hard to follow the comparison of an author to a fish.

Still there is definitely more freedom in a system that doesn't censor every single utterance.

Re: Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics

#112

Post by chillacy » Mon, May 27, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

JetSpiegel wrote: post #91

liability wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A level playing field is more important than any hairbrained theories I might(do) have about IP law. Far worse than tech patents and copyright are tech patents and copyright that only apply to some companies but not others.

By this point, the US patent system can be considered a self inflicted wound. It's not like there have been decades of activists trying to take it down. Maybe the US could have a cheap 5G vendor, if it had abolished patents decades ago, but now it's too late, the cat is out of the bag.

Part of me hopes we will see some IP reform. I can’t imagine China sees the patent trolls and high price of drugs and thinks “yea that’s the system of the future”

Re: Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics

#113

Post by chillacy » Mon, May 27, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

whenchamenia wrote: post #67

ummonk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this why most people on HN and in the tech community writ-large oppose patents in tech? Faster innovation happens when IP protections aren't holding back innovation.

Are you inferring that we let their continued violation a system we both agreed to, while following it ourselves, slide, because it kinda resembles your philosophy from a hazy distance?

If some of us were trying to reform a defective system in the first place, then yes we’d rather the world didn’t just finalize on hamstringing the pace of innovation for the future.

Re: Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics

#114

Post by chillacy » Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:06 PM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #61

johnchristopher wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading an article about how a Chinese company would hire European bakers to demonstrate how they bake breads ad nauseum until they could reproduce and automate each steps perfectly. The thinking was "they [chinese] have no imagination so they stick to known processes and don't deviate". Don't really know what to make of that.

I see it much more in the context of imitation being the sincerest form of flattery. Do you want to know how good authentic European bread is made? You ask European bakers to show it to you and then replicate. Accusing a whole people of a "lack of imagination" is way too reductive a statement. Case in point: I'm sure Chinese noodle-makers could show European cooks a trick or two, just like Europeans stole a trick or…

I think historically that was true: at various points in history knowledge of pottery, silk making, literal tea plants and silk worms were “stolen” from China. I’m sure the current leadership remembers those lessons.

Re: Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics

#115

Post by chillacy » Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:07 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #15

nailer wrote: post #11

Anecdote. May be untrue. Don't trust everything you read online, etc. A friend was a 7 year Ericsson employee (ending in 2012). In his opinion, Ericsson's networking equipment was universally acknowledged as having slow deployment times. Nokia's stuff was much faster to deploy. When Huawei hired the ex-Nokia engineers at 2.5x their previous salary, they asked them how Nokia did particular tasks. The engineer would sa…

I remember reading an article about how a Chinese company would hire European bakers to demonstrate how they bake breads ad nauseum until they could reproduce and automate each steps perfectly. The thinking was "they [chinese] have no imagination so they stick to known processes and don't deviate". Don't really know what to make of that.

I visited the Toyota factory in japan and they talked about how they imported a Chevrolet car and took it apart to replicate it to get started.

Then there’s Japanese whisky, denim, music, etc... all extremely high end now.

Re: Huawei’s Yearslong Rise Is Littered with Accusations of Theft and Dubious Ethics

#116

Post by chillacy » Mon, May 27, 2019, 6:09 PM UTC

jmull wrote: post #72

HillaryBriss wrote: post #48

What's the big deal here? Couldn't other countries just steal technology back? e.g. couldn't a 5-eyes country consortium just rip off Huawei's 5G technology and run with it in their own markets?

Stealing stuff is OK because other people could also steal stuff? I don’t think that’s a valid point.

Morality follows money. If the US would be better off copying I have no doubt we would quickly shift our narratives to align to the new economic realities.