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British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

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Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#121

Post by burfog »

n4r9 wrote: post #115
no1youknowz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in London for 10 years too. Visiting the US does not mean living in it... - Netflix, in the UK due to licensing is a poorer subset of content. - There are much better choices of food options available in the US compared to the UK. - No, literally everywhere. I know many developers [around the US] who know either just PHP or Node and have $100k positions. Try living outside of London, you'd be lucky just to…

I'll grant you that I'm comparing living in London to living in the US generally, which is a little unfair. I've also lived in Nottingham (also great public transport) and Cambridge (pretty poor public transport) and have managed most of the time without needing to drive. My point is more that "bigger cars" is not inherently a valuable prospect compared to "good public transport". After a few online searches the aver…

The appropriate comparison to London is Manhattan, or at least New York City.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#122

Post by Aromasin »

burfog wrote: post #119
DanBC wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reporting on court proceedings can get you arrested. No, interfering with trials will get you arrested. > a guy got in trouble with the law for making a comedy video with a little dog saluting Hitler. It wasn't the Nazi salutes that caused the trouble, it was broadcasting the repeated use of the phrase "gas the jews". He tried to use the "it was just a prank bro" defence in court, and they rejected it because i) to…

The point is that the US has more freedom. His "it was just a prank bro" defense wouldn't even be needed. Because the US has freedom, people can make videos like that all they want. It doesn't matter if there is a girlfriend to show. It doesn't matter if you happen to think "gas the Jews" is or isn't funny. Well, you'd best never have a thought that offends anybody ever in your rapidly-changing culture. Someday that…

He got fined for it. He was stupid - in my eyes, the judgement was stupid too I agree - but that's it. Equating this to some Orwellian novel though confuses me though. That's some Fox News/Daily Mail level of pulling at straws. We're not living in the 1400s where speaking bad of the king could get you locked up or beheaded, or the early 1900s where that kind of joking was not only allowed but encouraged. It's not quite true classical liberalism, but it's also nowhere near Oceania Thought Police. It's certainly much closer to the former than the later.

What I'm struggling to understand is why we're trying to compare fining a person for a joke, versus the systematic imprisonment of four times as many people per capita as that in the UK, and exponentially more if you compare the US to the rest of Europe[1]. 46% of the population is in for non-violent crime. Hell, according to cut50, just under 1 in 100 Americans are behind bars, up 500% in 30 years. [2] More flag waving and anthem chanting doesn't change that, as much as that may upset the patriotic sensibilities of so many.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera... [2] https://www.cut50.org/

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#124

Post by burfog »

Aromasin wrote: post #122
burfog wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that the US has more freedom. His "it was just a prank bro" defense wouldn't even be needed. Because the US has freedom, people can make videos like that all they want. It doesn't matter if there is a girlfriend to show. It doesn't matter if you happen to think "gas the Jews" is or isn't funny. Well, you'd best never have a thought that offends anybody ever in your rapidly-changing culture. Someday that…

He got fined for it. He was stupid - in my eyes, the judgement was stupid too I agree - but that's it. Equating this to some Orwellian novel though confuses me though. That's some Fox News/Daily Mail level of pulling at straws. We're not living in the 1400s where speaking bad of the king could get you locked up or beheaded, or the early 1900s where that kind of joking was not only allowed but encouraged. It's not qui…

Maybe they belong in prison. Crazy alternatives we could try:

a. We let them out, and this is fine because they are good people. LOL.

b. We let criminals run amok, pillaging our villages as they please.

c. We shoot them, then make their family pay for the cost of the bullet.

d. We send them to a prison colony like Australia.

e. We import better people. Maybe we could raid Japan or Iceland to get nicer people.

What I do know is that they aren't in prison just for being rude on Twitter.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#126

Post by hvidgaard »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #86
hvidgaard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the right to bear arms, what is different? Many people even see that as a benefit to the UK.

You can "bear arms" here in the UK if you like. Just go down to the Post Office and buy a license. I'm not even joking - I live in a rural area and know multiple people with shotgun licenses. You'll be subjected to a criminal background check of course.

You cannot carry it in the public, and you are generally not allowed to use deadly force. Hand guns are not allowed for private ownership and there are about 20-30 gun related deaths yearly in the UK. In US numbers that would be equivalent to 120-180. The US number is around 40,000. Let that sink in for a while.

The problem with guns are virtually none existing in the UK.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#127

Post by hyperdunc »

hvidgaard wrote: post #41
hyperdunc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the US give you that the UK doesn't? First and second amendment protections. Perhaps those are not an advantage in your book?

Apart from the right to bear arms, what is different? Many people even see that as a benefit to the UK.

The UK does not have freedom of speech; you can be prosecuted for verbally "causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another". In 2016, over 1500 people in the UK were fined or even jailed under this heinous law.

In the US, the 1st Amendment expressly prohibits this kind of authoritarianism.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#128

Post by hvidgaard »

hyperdunc wrote: post #127
hvidgaard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the right to bear arms, what is different? Many people even see that as a benefit to the UK.

The UK does not have freedom of speech; you can be prosecuted for verbally "causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another". In 2016, over 1500 people in the UK were fined or even jailed under this heinous law. In the US, the 1st Amendment expressly prohibits this kind of authoritarianism.

1st amendment does not allow you do say whatever you feel like. Explicitly the following is not protected

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...

But regardless, you've conveniently only quoted part of that law text. It's only about electronic communication https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127

and for context the relevant parts read:

With 1a saying

   A person is guilty of an offence if he sends by means of a public
   electronic communications network a message or other matter that is
   grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character
and 2a saying

   A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing
   annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he sends by
   means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he
   knows to be false
In other words, you're not allowed to lie for the sole purpose of "causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another" and you're not allowed to send messages that are "grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character". 1a is not allowed under 1st amendment, and we can argue about how the latter is allowed by the 1st amendment, but some of it surely isn't as obscenity, incitement, and fighting words and offensive speech are explicitly not allowed.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#129

Post by angry_octet »

akmarinov wrote: post #97
Tsubasachan wrote: post #11

Should have used WeChat. On a Huawei phone.

They can detain you indefinitely until you give up your password, so it doesn’t matter. There are no laws at the border, even the constitution doesn’t apply for US citizens there.

Just a nitpick, but the Constitution still applies (and worldwide between US GOvt and US Persons), but the courts have decided its rules against unreasonable search and seizure don't apply for customs and immigration purposes with certain distances of a port of entry.

Plenty of laws apply. They thing to remember is that you can't give up something you don't have. Use a blank dumb phone when crossing, restore afterwards.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#130

Post by DanBC »

angry_octet wrote: post #129
akmarinov wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can detain you indefinitely until you give up your password, so it doesn’t matter. There are no laws at the border, even the constitution doesn’t apply for US citizens there.

Just a nitpick, but the Constitution still applies (and worldwide between US GOvt and US Persons), but the courts have decided its rules against unreasonable search and seizure don't apply for customs and immigration purposes with certain distances of a port of entry. Plenty of laws apply. They thing to remember is that you can't give up something you don't have. Use a blank dumb phone when crossing, restore afterwar…

The entry requirements aren't just "show me the phone you have", they include "give me your social media details".

Turning up with a burnder phone is a guarantee that you're going to spend hours in an immigration office.

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