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Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

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Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#41

Post by alexpotato »

This reminds me of an interesting personal anecdote about demographic realities vs perceptions.

It's 1996 and I'm attending an information session for University of Pennsylvania in my hometown.

The presented asks at the start of the session: "Do we have any UPenn alums in the room?" Several folks get up and say "I was class of '67", "I was class of '68" etc.

My first reaction was: "Wow, admissions rates at UPenn are something like 5%. These must have been some smart parents to get in back then."

Little did I know (and which I found out later), admissions rates at UPenn in the 60's was around 50%. Why? Because Johnson cut all of the Eisenhower funding from the 50's so universities had to admit a ton more students to help cover the drop in funding.

I bring up this story because it makes me stop and think about how young people today may be going through a totally different experience than I went through based on some factors totally outside of their control.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#42

Post by Simulacra »

I genuinely confused by people who can't find work when they're actively looking for it. Normalizing for all of the usual discriminators, such as race, gender, body weight, where you went to school, attractiveness, etc. I still don't understand how it's possible to not get a job in the field you desire, if you have the education and will to do it. I think the new generation of college graduates are lazy, and expect everything to be handed to them, and they give up when it gets tough.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#43

Post by purplezooey »

Creationer wrote: post #33

A lot of companies that I've worked for have been completely dominated by internal politics and rivalries, at the expense of delivering a good product to the end-customer. Lately though those 'natural' politics have shifted to virtue signalling at the expense of junior and new employees. The end-product and vision of the customer is even further away. “Those who traditionally face diminished labor market opportunitie…

er, no

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#44

Post by granshaw »

preommr wrote: post #2

People are leaving the typical job market because the typical job market abandoned them. I don't know if this is me just glorifying the past, but I've heard people say that the the company they used to work for would somewhat look out for them and that it was expected that you would stick around for a long time. Nowadays it's more expected to hop from one job to another.

The way I think about current American corporate culture is that, yes, there are good _individuals_ at companies that legitimately want you to succeed and have you paid what you’re worth; but at the end of the day the needs of the company trumps all, and companies themselves are ruthless, inhuman, profit-seeking entities.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#45

Post by zimablue »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #40
jstewartmobile wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for the downvoters: sorry, but discrimination is discrimination. Avocado toast boy never kept a woman under his thumb or made people use a different water fountain. Why should he be penalized for what someone else's grandparents did?

> Why should he be penalized for what someone else's grandparents did? I'm not convinced that you're asking in good faith, but I'm going to try to be optimistic and answer anyway. Most of us can agree that there are demographics who have been systematically disadvantaged and that we live in an economy where advantages are often passed from one generation to another. This cascading injustice is similar to a relay race…

There's a much more rational way to try and account for that though- your parents income/wealth. That's what actually determines whether you are a leg up or a leg down, so if you're committed to this type of equality Index on that. Skin colour is a pretty insane proxy! There are poor white people too, and you can't assume they "deserve it because their family failed" it's insane. And your metaphor that it would somehow be justified to "disqualify" white people is bonkers. It's about as logically valid as an argument that we should "disqualify" black people- without slavery they wouldn't exist (butterfly effect), but assuming they did their median income would be that of eg. DRC. Slavery is a bad thing so we should "reverse" the effects right? We're NOT teams. I'm not on "team white" and anyone, regarding of race who thinks I'm on it is on the opposite team, because my actual team is my beliefs.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#46

Post by _nalply »

Simulacra wrote: post #42

I genuinely confused by people who can't find work when they're actively looking for it. Normalizing for all of the usual discriminators, such as race, gender, body weight, where you went to school, attractiveness, etc. I still don't understand how it's possible to not get a job in the field you desire, if you have the education and will to do it. I think the new generation of college graduates are lazy, and expect e…

Maybe you just had luck and lived a sheltered life?

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#47

Post by zimablue »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #36
jstewartmobile wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most state hiring boards (schools, colleges, administrators, etc) and federal contractors add points to minority, female, and veteran candidates--essentially a deduct from white male non-veterans. That they are still winning with a handicap doesn't change the fact that they are being penalized.

The veteran one is the only one deliberately biasing things away from neutral. And shouldn't neutral total bias be the goal? Fighting bias with bias is not as good as fixing root causes, but it works in more places.

Because it's a false assumption that the "natural" distribution perfectly reflects the demographics of the population.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#48

Post by Overtonwindow »

_nalply wrote: post #46
Simulacra wrote: post #42

I genuinely confused by people who can't find work when they're actively looking for it. Normalizing for all of the usual discriminators, such as race, gender, body weight, where you went to school, attractiveness, etc. I still don't understand how it's possible to not get a job in the field you desire, if you have the education and will to do it. I think the new generation of college graduates are lazy, and expect e…

Maybe you just had luck and lived a sheltered life?

Maybe she can’t hear you over the trolling.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#49

Post by BuckRogers »

zimablue wrote: post #45
ChristianBundy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should he be penalized for what someone else's grandparents did? I'm not convinced that you're asking in good faith, but I'm going to try to be optimistic and answer anyway. Most of us can agree that there are demographics who have been systematically disadvantaged and that we live in an economy where advantages are often passed from one generation to another. This cascading injustice is similar to a relay race…

There's a much more rational way to try and account for that though- your parents income/wealth. That's what actually determines whether you are a leg up or a leg down, so if you're committed to this type of equality Index on that. Skin colour is a pretty insane proxy! There are poor white people too, and you can't assume they "deserve it because their family failed" it's insane. And your metaphor that it would someh…

Almost perfect post but your beliefs don't matter. They may help you maintain sanity in a chaotic world. Otherwise, your beliefs only matter if you have enough money to bribe a senator.

Your actual team, at least the one that matters, is your class. If you have to punch a clock to survive, you're working class. If your money works for you, you're investment class.

Re: Young White Dudes Are Decidedly Opting Out of the Whole ‘Job’ Thing

#50

Post by ChristianBundy »

zimablue wrote: post #45
ChristianBundy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should he be penalized for what someone else's grandparents did? I'm not convinced that you're asking in good faith, but I'm going to try to be optimistic and answer anyway. Most of us can agree that there are demographics who have been systematically disadvantaged and that we live in an economy where advantages are often passed from one generation to another. This cascading injustice is similar to a relay race…

There's a much more rational way to try and account for that though- your parents income/wealth. That's what actually determines whether you are a leg up or a leg down, so if you're committed to this type of equality Index on that. Skin colour is a pretty insane proxy! There are poor white people too, and you can't assume they "deserve it because their family failed" it's insane. And your metaphor that it would someh…

I don't think that's a bad idea, but it would be difficult to capture a wealth index as well. Do you measure their current income? Total lifetime income? How do you measure social wealth, education, or even capital? None of this is simple.

I'm not claiming that all implementations of affirmative action are perfect, but I think progress is being made in the right direction. I think that moving to a system that took income or class into account could be an improvement, but I haven't seen enough research to have a strong opinion here. Maybe you could point me to a few resources?

> And your metaphor that it would somehow be justified to "disqualify" white people is bonkers.

I think you're confused. I said "we can't", not "we should" or "it would be justified".

> We're NOT teams. I'm not on "team white" and anyone, regarding of race who thinks I'm on it is on the opposite team, because my actual team is my beliefs.

You're responding to words I haven't said. Of course we're not teams, I didn't suggest anything of the sort.

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