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Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

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Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#91

Post by jokermatt999 »

wwortiz wrote: post #64
krschultz wrote: post #56

I've seen the following argument a thousand times: "Well the marginal cost of a copy of [some digital good] is 0 so it isn't stealing!" That argument is actually completly irrelevant. I took a train the other night, and there were only 2 people in my whole car. The previous week it was packed. Both times I had to buy a ticket at the same price. If you don't see what that has to do with pirating music (or software, or…

From the article: >“Books are priced too high,” said Berntsen when justifying his work. “One of the reasons why the pirate world is so big, is that publishers take crazy prices for something that isn’t even in physical form.” This is actually one of the better arguments in favor of piracy I have seen, though I'm sure most people don't see their pirating this way, pirating books isn't really the solution, and it is qu…

>My personal problem with digital books, which I avoid by going to used book stores (So I guess I'm not really supporting anyone other than the book store), is that some publishers think there should be a convenience charge to the customer in order to obtain a digital copy, I believe in no way should an ebook cost more than the cheapest copy (be it paperback or hardback) available from the same store new.

Which, if you think about it, seems totally backwards. A paper or hardback book can be sold secondhand, and some of the value recouped. With an ebook, there's no way to resell and regain some of what you've spent. However, if you aren't discussing reselling, this is kind of a moot point.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#92

Post by tjr »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #78
krschultz wrote: post #56

I've seen the following argument a thousand times: "Well the marginal cost of a copy of [some digital good] is 0 so it isn't stealing!" That argument is actually completly irrelevant. I took a train the other night, and there were only 2 people in my whole car. The previous week it was packed. Both times I had to buy a ticket at the same price. If you don't see what that has to do with pirating music (or software, or…

There are still a fixed number of seats on the train (or plane). If someone "steals" a seat then that's a seat that someone else cannot have. This is dramatically different from the case of digital media where there is no similar impact. For music piracy the only cost is the potential lost sale of the music to the "pirate". Edit: to follow up, I'm a music pirate and proud of it. In my experience there are three types…

The current hypothetical non-piracy model for music is broken, and it always has been.

I agree with that. My main concern is not people who make unauthorized copies of music and then later buy copies; I personally think that's great, and ought to be somehow legal. I am concerned about people who make unauthorized copies of music with no intention of ever paying for it and just flat out don't care because they don't feel it's worth paying for, even though they clearly see it as something of value, since they listen to it.

The huge difficulty is, how can you reliably discern between these classes of unauthorized copying?

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#93

Post by T_S_ »

krschultz wrote: post #56

I've seen the following argument a thousand times: "Well the marginal cost of a copy of [some digital good] is 0 so it isn't stealing!" That argument is actually completly irrelevant. I took a train the other night, and there were only 2 people in my whole car. The previous week it was packed. Both times I had to buy a ticket at the same price. If you don't see what that has to do with pirating music (or software, or…

Arguments about marginal cost of production don't matter when the cost of enforcement is high. The issue of piracy ultimately comes down to whether agreements are enforceable. In the long run society won't help people enforce the unenforceable. If we come up with some form of technological fix that "knows" when an agreement has been broken then piracy will dwindle. Otherwise these laws will eventually be taken off the books, like adultery and other former crimes.

That's not meant as an ethical argument. Simply a forecast.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#94

Post by jacquesm »

ErrantX wrote: post #80
chc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's copyright infringement, that's what it is. If it were stealing, you wouldn't be able to get million-dollar verdicts against the people who do it.

Ok, but I think the point being made is that the artists (ignore the record companies, they're idiots) feel as if they are being stolen from. Not just in monetary cost. So; ethical theft?

> they're idiots

The idiots are still laughing all the way to the bank.

> So; ethical theft?

No, copyright infringement.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#95

Post by jacquesm »

sethg wrote: post #42
arethuza wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me think of what is potentially a very large market - kids toys. As any parent will tell you, an awful lot of toys (especially for young kids) are cheap bits of plastic where the only "value" is the associated licensing of a brand/character from someone like Disney.

The relevant patents on Lego® bricks expired decades ago, and you would think clone bricks would have flooded the market by now. And yet Legos still sell—even the sets that aren’t licensed brands. My experience with Mega Blocks, cheaper bricks that are supposed to interlock with Legos, is that they don’t interlock very well—the tolerances are just far off enough to cause frustration. There must be something in Lego’s…

Execution is everything, even in something as apparently simple (it isn't!) as a lego brick.

The tolerances, the plastics used, the pigments, all add up to a quality product. The difference is so large that you can tell the 'real' from the 'imitation' just by looking at them, you don't even need to do a trial fit to see which one is which.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#96

Post by steveklabnik »

wvenable wrote: post #38
WillyF wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an avid fly fisherman, I completely agree; however, it's often very difficult for people to conceptualize that wildlife is a limited resource. How does my taking a fish that is a half inch under the limit really hurt anyone? What about an extra fish? Or fishing after dark when it's illegal? The negative effects are often extremely far removed from the initial act. That doesn't make it ok, but it does explain why m…

This is tragedy of the commons -- if one person does it, there is no real harm but if everyone does it then there will be no fish left for anyone. A lot of people can conceptualize this but many others rely on the fact that other people don't break the rules. Music piracy is similar. Piracy works right now because there are enough people buying music and the margins are high enough that those legitimate buyers are su…

The zillions of unsigned bands wailing on guitars in every bar from Thursday to Sunday suggest that there'd still be plenty of music, even if there was no way to sell recordings.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#97

Post by philh »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #90
xenophanes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fixed seats on train is only relevant if it fills up. So just imagine the case where it doesn't totally fill and consider his point again and you should see the parallel.

That's a bit too far into abstract hypotheticals for me. If I steal a candybar from a convenience store and it just happens to be a candybar that wouldn't have sold before it expired and had to be thrown out, is that stealing? If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing?

> If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing?

Actually, no. If you intend to return it in the original condition, so they can still sell it, then legally speaking it isn't theft. (It may still be illegal, I don't know.)

Just to clarify, I'm not claiming anything about piracy here.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#98

Post by noonespecial »

neild wrote: post #71
endtime wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many people make only the case that the marginal cost is 0. But when the marginal cost is zero, and I wouldn't have bought the thing anyway (e.g. Photoshop), and when it's a non-scarce good, I really struggle to see the harm.

It's astonishingly easy to convince yourself that you "wouldn't have bought the thing anyway". The best way to be sure that you aren't lying to yourself is to not pirate things.

I pirated Photoshop for nearly all of my young life, since the release of 1.0. The day my business made its first dollar from photoshopped images, we bought the entire Adobe Creative Suite.

Not have bought it anyway has a strange way of turning into bought the whole damn thing.

I have no trouble at all with people who pirate to dabble, but I do have trouble with people who pirate software and then use it to make money.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#99

Post by bphogan »

ErrantX wrote: post #80
chc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's copyright infringement, that's what it is. If it were stealing, you wouldn't be able to get million-dollar verdicts against the people who do it.

Ok, but I think the point being made is that the artists (ignore the record companies, they're idiots) feel as if they are being stolen from. Not just in monetary cost. So; ethical theft?

We've all heard that record companies are evil, but then again they often pre-pay an artist to produce a record, pay for studio time, mixing, mastering, etc. There's a lot that goes into producing music, videos, and books than you see. Open up a book and look at the production credits. People do indexing, typesetting, copy editing, distribution, translations, artwork, and on and on. So if nobody's buying books, those people get hurt. But let's look at the author directly.

Authors often get advances against royalties. Let's say BigPublishingCo pays you $10,000 to write a book. Let's say your book doesn't do well. What are the odds you'll get to write a second book? As an author, you're looking at your future and trying to figure out how you can increase sales.

One way to do that is to make the pirate copies disappear.

That's what publishers try to do, so they can stay in business.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#100

Post by xenophanes »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #90
xenophanes wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fixed seats on train is only relevant if it fills up. So just imagine the case where it doesn't totally fill and consider his point again and you should see the parallel.

That's a bit too far into abstract hypotheticals for me. If I steal a candybar from a convenience store and it just happens to be a candybar that wouldn't have sold before it expired and had to be thrown out, is that stealing? If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing?

I think you've misunderstood my position. That candy bar thing is stealing, and stealing a seat on the train is stealing too. This is not abstract or anti-common-sense.

The parent to my comment had made a hypothetical more complicated by adding a special case (about the train getting full) and I suggested he reconsider without that complication.

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