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Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

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Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#41

Post by neiman »

spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

Assume that humans stop consuming livestock products tomorrow. The real goal would still be to reduce livestock, right?

How will it be done exactly? How long will it take? Will they be released to nature? Killed? Not allowed to reproduce and we'll wait for them to die of old age? Be supplied condoms?:-)

I don't have the knowledge to know whats needed to be done, or which steps are needed to be taken to do that, even if we stop consuming livestock products.

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#42

Post by tty2300 »

dev_dull wrote: post #14
newnewpdro wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great and all but there's over a billion people in India alone and a huge fraction of them are still living in poverty, effectively contributing very little currently to factors like co2 emissions. It won't stay that way for much longer. Quality of life tends to increase, and correspondingly impact increases. We already have far too many people if you consider the quality of life is destined to normalize at th…

> Quality of life tends to increase, and correspondingly impact increases I’m not sure I agree that this is true because it ignores all of the efficiency gains (especially in electronics but in other things as well) we’ve seen the last 50+ years. Not to mention things like renewable solar which is not readily and cheaply available.

Our electronics run on next to no power but then we throw them out constantly and buy new onea because some marketing department said we should.

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#43

Post by jefflombardjr »

spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

Live stock farming is ~27% of methane production, where fossil fuels are ~33% [1]. Eating an eco friendly diet is great on the individual level, but we should not underscore the drastic need for decisive action on an institutional level.

[1] https://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/methane-emissio...

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#44

Post by cheerlessbog »

neiman wrote: post #41
spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

Assume that humans stop consuming livestock products tomorrow. The real goal would still be to reduce livestock, right? How will it be done exactly? How long will it take? Will they be released to nature? Killed? Not allowed to reproduce and we'll wait for them to die of old age? Be supplied condoms?:-) I don't have the knowledge to know whats needed to be done, or which steps are needed to be taken to do that, even…

Also if we reduce meat consumption but not milk and eggs, what happens to the animals too old to produce efficiently? Killing and eating them might have a lower environmental impact than letting them live out their old age and then rot.

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#46

Post by vbuwivbiu »

spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

I'm reading a lot of smoker's-logic in the replies to this: people who love eating meat clutching at straws trying to rationalize it. Nobody's forcing you to do anything! You can happily ignore this and continue living your life as you wish.

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#47

Post by h0l0cube »

jefflombardjr wrote: post #43
spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

Live stock farming is ~27% of methane production, where fossil fuels are ~33% [1]. Eating an eco friendly diet is great on the individual level, but we should not underscore the drastic need for decisive action on an institutional level. [1] https://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/methane-emissio...

One way to achieve both action on an institutional level, and reduce the consumption of meat, would be to capture the 'environmental costs' in the price. This could be orchestrated by government intervention, or on a less-effective scale, it could be a market differentiation for certain beef brands to include climate-change mitigation as part of their strategy and charge a premium.

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#48

Post by bubblewrap »

My favorite doomsday scenario at the moment is that it may be earthworms who finally kill us: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/science/earthworms-soil-c...

They appear to be venturing into new areas and releasing carbon there, furthering global warming.

There are just too many scenarios of that kind.

Either we really are doomed, and climate will switch into a new kind of equilibrium hostile to humans.

Or, there are lots of mechanisms in place that counteract against such effects, and which are not yet well understood.

With so many climate based doomsday scenarios, how did earth survive for so long? I think there have to be at least some regulating mechanisms.

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#49

Post by bubblewrap »

spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

A more effective way of treating the feeling of hopelessness might be to simply stop consuming the news.

They feed on our fears...

Re: Unexpected Surge in Global Methane Levels

#50

Post by jefflombardjr »

oliveshell wrote: post #24
spraak wrote: post #22

Often I see comments asking what we can do to combat this, or expressing feeling hopeless. While it is not the complete solution, one direct way is by eliminating your personal consumption of animal products. Animal agriculture is a huge contributor to methane production, especially from cows. > Overall, we conclude that methane emissions associated with both the animal husbandry and fossil fuel industries have large…

It’s a nice thought, but even if we accept that the global population doing this would stem the tide of climate change (which I am doubtful it would), one quickly realizes that there is no way that the entire global population is going to stop eating animals, and we are back to feeling hopeless. I’m increasingly convinced that carbon sequestration on industrial scales is the only serious way to solve this problem.

> I’m increasingly convinced that carbon sequestration on industrial scales is the only serious way to solve this problem.

This is akin to trying to prevent the dust bowl[0] with giant vacuum cleaners. The environment is a system. We are a function of it, not the masters of it. We need to address the feedback loops causing this crisis that we are creating.

Even if that would work - As others have pointed out, we don't have the luxury of time to deploy industrial scale carbon sequestration. And even if we did - this type of thinking still discounts nature's value. [1] Why do we think it is easier to develop and deploy industrial scale carbon sequestration equipment when we have plants that are pretty damned good at doing just that? [2]

We need a total perspective change here. Nature doesn't need saving, the concrete deserts that are cities need green roofs and trees. We need to stop useless commutes and start working from home where applicable. We need to realize that lawns are an ecological disaster. [3]

But above all else, We need to make environmental damage illegal and stop allowing companies to profit off of it.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

[1]https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/10/this-is-why-putting-a...

[2]https://www.thoughtco.com/which-trees-offset-global-warming-...

[3]https://earther.gizmodo.com/lawns-are-an-ecological-disaster...

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