I grew up in Sonoma and lived in San Francisco for three years. I’m near the end of a two month stay in Medellín, Colombia. I’m looking to make the move out of SF permanent. People here ask me why I’d move to a city like Medellín from SF. It’s because there’s less crime, less drug use, less homelessness and less street harassment for my girlfriend.
Your girlfriend gets harassed walking down the street of SF more than she does in Colombia? What kind of harassment are you talking about?
The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
101–110 of 123 posts
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#102I grew up in Sonoma and lived in San Francisco for three years. I’m near the end of a two month stay in Medellín, Colombia. I’m looking to make the move out of SF permanent. People here ask me why I’d move to a city like Medellín from SF. It’s because there’s less crime, less drug use, less homelessness and less street harassment for my girlfriend.
Having lived in Medellin for a few months and currently living in SF I feel like this is a gross exaggeration. While SF certainly has more pronounced problems with homelessness and drugs, Medellin has vastly more violent crime. There are many neighborhoods Medellin I wouldn't dare be in past midnight.
Also if you’re in a good neighborhood and not involved in the drug trade, the occurrence of violent crime is very low.
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#103I grew up in Sonoma and lived in San Francisco for three years. I’m near the end of a two month stay in Medellín, Colombia. I’m looking to make the move out of SF permanent. People here ask me why I’d move to a city like Medellín from SF. It’s because there’s less crime, less drug use, less homelessness and less street harassment for my girlfriend.
Interested in a move to Medellin as well. Mind if I message privately to ask some questions?
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've banned this account because, as we've told you repeatedly before, you're not allowed to use HN as place for ideological battle, and that's basically all you've been doing. No, that's not because we favor racist mayors. It's because HN needs to be protected against people who only want to use it to advance agendas and fight enemies. If we don't protect it, those things will soon engulf everything else, the same w…
I have no opinion about the grandparent account one way or the other. But are you implying that the original article was NOT "ideological", "advancing agendas" and "fighting enemies"? If this kind political article is legitimate for this site (and I would argue that it is, given that it touches on the daily experience of many HN contributors), shouldn't it also be legitimate to take the other side of the political de…
On the other hand, unmoderated political discussion soon becomes flamewar. We can't allow that either because if we did, flames would consume the site and destroy the community. And that would also be less intellectually interesting. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
So we allow the topics, but try to prevent the hotter discussions from taking their natural course into, basically, war and rage. We want to avoid the latter not primarily for ethical reasons, but because it leads to informational heat death, which is boring. How to handle this? Lots of ways, but also: badly. We do an uneven job of it and don't know how to do much better. Pretty much any thread that gets into these topics makes me cringe. It's shocking and painful how awful people are to each other when they're sure they're right. Curiosity, incidentally, doesn't come with that certainty.
We try to ensure that articles with political overlap have at least some angle that isn't purely political, and that they contain substantial new information. That provides fiber, if you like, to slow down thought processes. This supports better discussion, or at least not such awful discussion.
Another thing we do is urge people not to post comments that abandon curiosity in order to fight enemies. It's not actually so hard to tell these apart. Any comment with a glimmer of curiosity has a tentative quality that remains open to new information and what others have to say. Why wouldn't it? Curiosity, by listening, may get gratified. This is very different from battle comments, which weaponize language and emotion (on the internet, that means snark) in the service of what the commenter feels is worth fighting for. For curiosity, it's important to remain open; for battle, it's important to fasten your armor, cede nothing, and be closed. Once you've triumphed over evil, maybe you can open up again. Battle may be important, but it's inimical to curiosity. Curiosity is the one thing we're trying to optimize HN for, so we moderate against battle no matter what it's for or against.
Another thing we do is down-regulate indignation however we can. Indignation is the strongest force on the internet, including on HN, and the most hostile to curiosity. Perhaps you think we shouldn't, because indignation has some value? Don't worry; no matter what we do, it will always be the biggest force here. Human nature plus internet equals indignation.
Lastly, another thing we do is ban accounts that use HN primarily for battle. Note that word primarily; it's there because of an empirical observation. Accounts that post curiously about lots of different things and occasionally get into a political argument are fine. Maybe we have to ask them not to cross the line into unkindness—but we wouldn't ban them for that. Accounts that primarily use HN to fight opponents are a different species. The first are net positive even if they occasionally burn some health points. The second are net negative, and not in a small way—in a curiosity-based ecosystem, they're an invasive species. This has turned out to be a fair and at least partially objective distinction that is suitable for moderation. If you watch closely what we do when we ban accounts for political battle, it should be clear that this is the test being applied. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#105I grew up in Sonoma and lived in San Francisco for three years. I’m near the end of a two month stay in Medellín, Colombia. I’m looking to make the move out of SF permanent. People here ask me why I’d move to a city like Medellín from SF. It’s because there’s less crime, less drug use, less homelessness and less street harassment for my girlfriend.
I’ve lived all over San Francisco and am now in the Inner Richmond. It’s easily my favorite place I’ve ever lived. Amazing food, easy access to two of the more incredible city parks in the country (Golden Gate and Presidio), and very safe [1]. I’ve gone for many a walk listening to music after midnight with no threat of danger.
Though I’ve never been to Colombia, I’ve been to Tijuana, Mexico City, San José, Buenos Aires, Bangkok, Saigon… in none one of those places would I want to walk around with AirPods, take pictures with a nice digital camera, or have my phone out in public for more than a few seconds. There’s simply too big of an income disparity between you and the average citizen.
[1] https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/San_Francisco-California/...
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, but you just admitted it was in depth, and not bad, parent gp said similar, so my question to both gp and you and those that think like this: why does that automatically equate to propaganda? Because it's not 'your side'? Why is the fact that it is a conservative think tank relevant? Evaluate the content on its merits and evidence. The fact that it doesn't cover one angle as extensively as you would have liked…
I'll answer, as I guess you're addressing me with this (although I'm not totally sure what "parent gp" means). As I said, the article, which is on a topic where I'm reasonably well informed, seemed at best badly written to me. When an article is a) bad, and b) bad in a way that's convenient to somebody, it's worth asking how it got published. Personally, I think "evaluate the content on its merits and evidence" is a…
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#107I used to go running in the early morning near Dolores Park. I remember a period of about six weeks when the entire row of cars there parked overnight would reliably have their windows broken every morning. I also struggle to remember ever seeing an SFPD officer patrolling this neighborhood (two blocks from a major police station) on foot.
> I also struggle to remember ever seeing an SFPD officer patrolling this neighborhood (two blocks from a major police station) on foot. Footbeats have been cut back from pretty much all police incl. in Europe. Policing(even moreso with reduced personnel) is more reactive than preventative. Getting from A to B and dealing with issue in B is generally quicker and safer by vehicle than having somebody run to B and then…
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> it’s petty theft, car break-ins and such. Nothing to worry about Why are people so chilled-out and blasé about having their things taken or damaged? Are you genuinely not bothered about the destruction due to a political belief about property or do you think it's unavoidable? It doesn't happen in most places - it doesn't have to be that way.
I grew up on the east coast. My inclination has always been: don't leave valuables in cars, especially not visibly so. Keep your stuff in sight and typically on your person. Here in SF, I often see people leave laptops on tables as they go to coffee shop bathrooms and I think, "wow, that person is crazy". (Even though I have never seen their laptops be stolen.) And it wasn't SF that did that to me. Where are people f…
Cars are broken into without even without any valuables in view. There is a common technique for breaking into Teslas, for example, such that the rear side window is broken to gain immediate access to the trunk release. Teslas get broken into on sheer speculation.
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#109Going to be there next week. Lived there twenty years ago. Haven't spent much time in the city since. All I hear is horror stories. I hope everything is ok? I was going to try to break in my new hiking boots after work each day. Any suggestion on safe places to walk with my pack on? I'm camping in Montana the following week.
You’ll be fine if you’re just visiting. Just don’t move there for any length of time.
Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco
#110>“We could be keeping them and be giving services while they’re in jail,” says Fabbri. “It could really be effective. >we’re not solving our problems when we pretend low-level crimes aren’t important. Those two facts are the crux of the issue. Prisons do not rehabilitate criminals; they just restrain them. Couple that with the fact it costs, on nationwide average, $84 per day to incarcerate someone and the average pe…
A daily theft of $84 per day has much more than $84/day of cost in terms of corrosion of social trust. A government payout cannot fix that - heck it makes it worse.