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The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

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Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#51

Which of the high-crime areas have rent control? What would the crime look like if the market had let the rents rise? It's my intuition that people rarely commute 1hr in bumper to bumper traffic to smash windows.

The older northern parts of the city have the highest rent control ratio. These are not high crime parts of the city. So there’s no correlation.

What you do see in the high crime areas is a large homeless population - who of course don’t have any rent to pay. I can’t imagine higher rents making the homeless problem any better?

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#52
SF is a weird place.

From a distance, it's really really beautiful and there's a lot of nice things about it.

But walking around it on the ground, the only place I've been that's felt dingier than it was Kuala Lumpur (and I still felt safer there).

Maybe if you live there - you get used to it - but man, was it unappealing.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Berkeley there's a woman on the streets who has a long history of assaults and property crimes. She obviously doesn't have the mental health care she desperately needs, but I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets and being all "surprised Pikachu" when she whacks a stranger over the head with a tree branch. https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/11/01/woman-arrested-in-do...

How come no one has shot her yet in self-defense?

It’s california, CCW permits are May-Issue (I.e., very rare) and open carry is banned. It’s less likely that assaulting random civilians will get you shot there than in, say, Texas.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Berkeley there's a woman on the streets who has a long history of assaults and property crimes. She obviously doesn't have the mental health care she desperately needs, but I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets and being all "surprised Pikachu" when she whacks a stranger over the head with a tree branch. https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/11/01/woman-arrested-in-do...

> I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets That's generally how I feel when government looks away regarding crime. When you give up the monopoly on violence, you're walking down a dangerous path. Citizens have entrusted the government with law enforcement, but they will return to taking care of that themselves if the government doesn't want the job any more, and I don't se…

Have you read Ghettoside? That's pretty much the case it makes about crime in poor African American neighborhoods: governments have done a bad job catching violent offenders there, so people living there take justice into their own hands and perpetuate the problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/books/review/jill-leovys-...

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#55
post #32

Which of the high-crime areas have rent control? What would the crime look like if the market had let the rents rise? It's my intuition that people rarely commute 1hr in bumper to bumper traffic to smash windows.

I believe a large amount is attributable to the homeless (or near homeless) population. Everything around them exploded out of their range, and this is the only power they feel they have to not get priced out or feel any semblance of personal power.

Only 50% of the homeless in San Francisco have been in the city for more than 10 years. Housing prices play a role but don't tell the full story.

When looking at the homeless who are still on the street, they're there because they refuse to go to shelters. The vast majority who are on the streets are there because of mental health issues or drugs. The visible aspect of homelessness has much more to do with us failing to provide adequate mental healthcare and a failed war on drugs than with housing prices.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets That's generally how I feel when government looks away regarding crime. When you give up the monopoly on violence, you're walking down a dangerous path. Citizens have entrusted the government with law enforcement, but they will return to taking care of that themselves if the government doesn't want the job any more, and I don't se…

Have you read Ghettoside? That's pretty much the case it makes about crime in poor African American neighborhoods: governments have done a bad job catching violent offenders there, so people living there take justice into their own hands and perpetuate the problem. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/books/review/jill-leovys-...

I have not, but that sounds like an interesting read. I will have a look at it, thanks for the tip.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#58
post #22

Crime's definitely a problem here, but parts of this strike me as exaggerated. I live in the Mission, and have for almost 20 years. I don't think crime is noticeably worse. This is also the first time I've heard a claim that crime is a significant reason for stores closing. When I talk with actual business owners, the big reasons are 1) massive rent increases, and b) difficulty finding staff at $15/hr. As an example,…

Interestingly enough they cite this article with another misleading title in the same way:

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Iconic-Stores-in-SFs-M...

Besides noting shoplifting, there is no other mention of crime while noting explicitly gentrification and real estate prices.

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Berkeley there's a woman on the streets who has a long history of assaults and property crimes. She obviously doesn't have the mental health care she desperately needs, but I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets and being all "surprised Pikachu" when she whacks a stranger over the head with a tree branch. https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/11/01/woman-arrested-in-do...

How come no one has shot her yet in self-defense?

[deleted]

Re: The High Cost of Low-level Crime in San Francisco

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the local government is giving up its legitimacy by keeping her on the streets That's generally how I feel when government looks away regarding crime. When you give up the monopoly on violence, you're walking down a dangerous path. Citizens have entrusted the government with law enforcement, but they will return to taking care of that themselves if the government doesn't want the job any more, and I don't se…

Have you read Ghettoside? That's pretty much the case it makes about crime in poor African American neighborhoods: governments have done a bad job catching violent offenders there, so people living there take justice into their own hands and perpetuate the problem. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/25/books/review/jill-leovys-...

Also worth reading this: https://news.wttw.com/2019/04/11/how-black-leaders-unintenti...

> As I passed them, I noticed another racial reality. It wasn’t only Brandon and the other young men in the cellblock who were black. So was everybody in the courtroom—not just the judge, but the court reporter, the bailiff, and the juvenile prosecutor. So was the police officer who had arrested Brandon, not to mention the police chief and the mayor. Even the building we were in—the H. Carl Moultrie I Courthouse, named after the city’s first black chief judge—was a reminder of the African American influence on D.C.’s legal system.

> This wasn’t my first time in an all-black D.C. courtroom, but something—probably my anger at the Martin Luther King speech—made the reality stand out that day. When I got back to my office, I continued the racial tally. I had been to the detention facility that would be Brandon’s new home more times than I wanted to count, and I knew that all the guards there were black, too. The city council that wrote the gun and drug laws Brandon had been convicted of violating was majority African American and had been so for more than twenty-five years. In cases that went to trial, the juries were often majority black. Even some of the federal officials involved in D.C.’s criminal justice system were African American, including Eric Holder, then the city’s chief prosecutor.

> In September 2014, the Sentencing Project issued a report comparing the attitudes of whites and blacks regarding crime and criminal justice policy. It found that when Americans were asked, “Do you think the courts in this area deal too harshly or not harshly enough with criminals?” more whites (73 percent) than blacks (64 percent) said “not harshly enough.” Media coverage of the report emphasized what the Sentencing Project called “the racial gap in punitiveness.” But the fact that almost two-thirds of blacks displayed such punitive attitudes received little notice. How could it be that even after forty years of tough-on-crime tactics, with their attendant toll on black America, 64 percent of African Americans still thought the courts were not harsh enough?

One of the ways we “otherize” African Americans is by denying that, just like white people, they want secure neighborhoods. And because they disproportionately live in poor neighborhoods, they are disproportionately affected by crime.

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