Please don’t theme our apps • Hacker News Board

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#51

Post by frenchy » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

grandinj wrote: post #40

brokenkebab wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent correctly notes that theming is a valid feature of the platform, and asking essentially for ignoring the feature because of brand issues sounds ridiculous. It maybe 'unhelpful', but sometimes we just express our opinions here, not running consultancy services. It's called commentary section for a reason.

Themeing is not a valid or supported feature. It's a hack that uses some facilities in GTK that were not intended for that purpose.

Really? Do you have a source for that? Theming GTK has been a not uncommon thing since as long as I've been using it (~15 years).

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#52

Post by Pxtl » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

I could see a very similar article written for "please stop letting users resize the window" or "please stop letting users change font size"

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#53

Post by Legogris » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

cotelletta wrote: post #18

Trying to explain to hardcore techies the value of consistent design and workflow is fruitless in my experience. They want full control over everything, even the things they are not experts in, and will put together byzantine Rube Goldberg machines to do it. And then chastise you for not seeing how "easy" it is to build and maintain. The complexity and effort you need to put in to make these situations work is a feat…

> The kind of sameness you want in design is a different kind than in code.

Maybe me, as a user, don't want your sameness. Why are you arguing that users should use things differently if they're happy with their own way, even if it's suboptimal in your opinion?

It's completely fine to hide certain configuration flags in "dev mode" sections and put warnings that you don't provide support for anything but default configuration of them. If your users want to be on their own, you have no responsibility to solve all their problems as long as you are explicit with what you support and not.

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#54

Post by anoncake » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

NyashMyash wrote: post #48

Bullshit. I need dark theme and I don't care about "brands" nor "identity". Stop burning my eyes please.

I think a dark theme is the one thing Gnome supports aside from the default.

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#55

Post by onli » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #31

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just bc you wrote something doesn't give you the right to dictate how I use it on my personal machine.

Again, this letter is not aimed at end users. "If you like to tinker with your own system, that’s fine with us."

That paragraph continues. The letter is absolutely also aimed at end users:

> If you like to tinker with your own system, that’s fine with us. However, if you change things like stylesheets and icons, you should be aware that you’re in unsupported territory. Any issues you encounter should be reported to the theme developer, not the app developer.

Just not with the same vehemence as its message directed at distros.

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#56

Post by anoncake » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

cotelletta wrote: post #18

Trying to explain to hardcore techies the value of consistent design and workflow is fruitless in my experience. They want full control over everything, even the things they are not experts in, and will put together byzantine Rube Goldberg machines to do it. And then chastise you for not seeing how "easy" it is to build and maintain. The complexity and effort you need to put in to make these situations work is a feat…

> Trying to explain to hardcore techies the value of consistent design and workflow is fruitless in my experience.

Theming doesn't even affect workflows. Since not all applications use GTK, it's necessary if you want a halfway consistent design. Respecting applications' branding is just the opposite of consistency.

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#57

Post by Legogris » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

781 wrote: post #26

Write the app in Electron. Problem solved. No more OS overriding your look.

I can see why the Electron-haters are downvoting you, but you're completely right. Don't build your apps in GTK if you don't want to have overridden GTK configurations affect your UI. I would really like Electron to add an on-by-default standard interface to override CSS rules for Electron apps, though.

(I don't have a horse in the Electron-is-great-or-crap race)

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#58

Post by anoncake » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

781 wrote: post #26

Write the app in Electron. Problem solved. No more OS overriding your look.

If the signers of this open letter did not care about quality, they wouldn't have signed it.

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#59

Post by 781 » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #58

781 wrote: post #26

Write the app in Electron. Problem solved. No more OS overriding your look.

If the signers of this open letter did not care about quality, they wouldn't have signed it.

I mean, you either want artistic control, or you want a consistent theme across apps. They want artistic control, thus would be better served by Electron.

Re: Please don’t theme our apps

#60

Post by anoncake » Sat, May 25, 2019, 1:11 PM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #32

Color themes seem like a brilliant idea until hit the point where your custom control needs this one extra distinct highlight or background color to convey state. Then you're out of luck. You only have bad options left: opt out of system theming and enforce your own or hardcode a color (or put it into the settings dialog) and accept that it breaks with any non-default theme out there because no user will take time to…

Or you use the extra distinct highlight or background color the system theme specifies.