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America is turning against facial-recognition software

economist.com

71–80 of 149 posts

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the concern is more widespread use by LEO and corporates who have far less oversight - and will effect several orders of magnitude more people.

You have vastly overestimated the oversight on intelligence agencies.

And how much legal oversight do the FANGS have? Let alone some local US police force run by individuals such as Sherriff Joe

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#72
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I see your Down Syndrome point, and raise you Autism/Asperger Syndrome. Alright, there isn't currently a test that would enable people with Autism/Asperger Syndrome to be systematically aborted, but it isn't so hard to imagine a future where it would be possible. Given the high proportion of people in this forum with these conditions, how do we feel about this?

Please note that you're not aborting 'people' ... just a thing that might become a person. You're giving (actual) people the opportunity to choose to have healthier families. - Note that I say 'healthier families' specifically because willfully passing on genetic features that disadvantage your children burdens not just them but your entire family unit.

The problem lies within the generalizations presented by the words “healthier” and “burdens”.

Many families with Downs children describe how much joy and love their Downs children bring to the family, how the family members learned to cherish what’s important in life, etc.

These families compared to many families with non-Downs children are quite healthy and arguably not burdened though they experience different challenges than other families.

EDIT: fix quote; change last preposition in second sentence.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#73
post #2

Good. This kind of software is a mirror to the data fed into it. People on the edges of society (that the people making the mirror might either intentionally or accidentally ignore) will get fucked over tremendously by this technology. We should put a complete ban on it. Even if it means gimping my photo organization programs.

As a person with prosopagnosia (vide http://web.archive.org/web/20080704154655/http://www.prosopa...), I would love to have personal software for recognizing people.

At the same time, I am aware of the dangers of people doing it for commercial purposes (on so many levels!).

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#74
America isn't turning against anything. There was no shortage of people that bought the new iPhone with face scan technology.

I believe we live in a society where it's already possible to track the vast majority of people to a general area 100% of the time. Technology is progressing, soon it will be real-time tracking of targeted individuals 100% of the time. That will slowly expand to all individuals. Between cell phone tracking, license plate scanners, and facial recognition cameras, the system knows where you are.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 from another trans woman

Pardon the ignorant question, but is there an accepted "standard" for pronouns when someone identifies themself as you did? Which is to say, if you say you're a "trans woman", am I able to infer that your desired gender pronoun is female?

I'm not trans but have several trans friends, and just wanted to add (as a non-trans person), make a best guess for how someone presents and if they correct you, do not joke about it. No jokes, no extra comments, Just say, "sorry, got it," and move on. It's a matter of respect and nothing more, and if you respect someone, it's easy to show it. Making a joke about something that's important (and possibly sensitive) to someone is just a bad start.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prohibition doesn't work You're appropriating sociological behaviors of the individual to maxims at the corporate level, which is ridiculous. Corporations need to be regulated, not coddled in some kind of convoluted, scaled-up, harm-reduction policy.

Public opinion is what ultimately is the determining factor here. If the public does not strongly want to punish companies for doing something then the government will not be successful at punishing companies for doing something. In a democracy government follows public opinion. In the absence of strong public opinion you get corporate interests shaping what government does. Yeah, sure, ban it. But without social con…

Amen to that. And public opinion is easily manipulated. Create fear and people will give up their rights , if someone resists accuse them of being anti-freedom, anti-patriotic, against the free market, communist/socialist, helping terrorists,etc. Use the media which is owned by the same people politicians protect and in no time most of the population will comply

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#77
There is a lot of sensationalism (see title of article) and high, anxious emotions around facial recognition right now, which really is to be expected at this point. But it is muddying the rational conversations we should be having about it. Can Amazon lessen Rekognition's bias towards white people (ie. bright pixels)? Yes. Get over that. This article completely whiffed on an important point regarding police use of facial recognition (or maybe I missed it) and that is _police_ bias. We are talking about one of the most culturally and racially biased concentrations of power in the country. It's important to note that they will NOT be training the models or writing the algorithms that drive their tools. We have a chance to let some brilliant engineers create deliberately unbiased tools that can only improve the situation in America's police force. PLEASE do not let your fears win. It will be used for evil and it will be used for good. That is not something that should be banned. Sorry I started getting a little emotional.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#78
post #2

Good. This kind of software is a mirror to the data fed into it. People on the edges of society (that the people making the mirror might either intentionally or accidentally ignore) will get fucked over tremendously by this technology. We should put a complete ban on it. Even if it means gimping my photo organization programs.

I fully agree with your sentiment but I don't agree with a ban. Prohibition doesn't work. You should be able to use it but the legal risks and liability you open yourself up to by using it should be strong enough to deter its use except when there truly is no substitute. Asbestos comes to mind as an example. People (often on HN) often run in circles and scream about the sky falling because "OMG it's not banned" but t…

Counterpoint: How many cloned humans have we seen?

Prohibition works when the barrier to entry is higher. Any mook with some yeast and sugar can make alcohol. Pot grows just about anywhere (which is why they call it weed). But not a lot of people are privately developing nuclear bombs or cloning humans.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#79
post #3

This has been debated extensively on HN (and is still being debated actively), but all I hope is that people realise sooner or later that the level of safety you can acquire in a society is inversely related to the level of privacy individuals can have. What I personally hope for is that people achieve a balance between safety and privacy.

Those who would give up essential Privacy, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Privacy nor Safety.

Re: America is turning against facial-recognition software

#80

There is a lot of sensationalism (see title of article) and high, anxious emotions around facial recognition right now, which really is to be expected at this point. But it is muddying the rational conversations we should be having about it. Can Amazon lessen Rekognition's bias towards white people (ie. bright pixels)? Yes. Get over that. This article completely whiffed on an important point regarding police use of f…

I think the folks who are against facial recognition because they view it as “racist” are in the minority.
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