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China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

globaltimes.cn

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Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#101

Post by rswail »

netcan wrote: post #85
Jaruzel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the UK we enjoy low speed trains every day. ;) Just seeing this stuff in other countries really makes me sad about how my countries technological developments have been left to rot.

Every time I visit London, I'm puzzled by the seeming paradox. That system was dug in the 1800s, when light-bulbs and bicycles were still in beta. Over 150 years later, a project like that is out of reach for nearly all western cities. It's like the "we can't go to the moon anymore." It just offends my/our intuition about progress.

The reason the British Empire flourished is because, well, the British Empire flourished.

The industrial revolution began in the UK, the engineering of the time was lead by the British.

So yes, London got the tube, it got sewerage, it got all wonders of public facility because it was a win-win. Proclaimed the glory of the Empire to keep others in check and provide the people with the spoils of Empire.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#102

Post by mattlondon »

netcan wrote: post #85
Jaruzel wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the UK we enjoy low speed trains every day. ;) Just seeing this stuff in other countries really makes me sad about how my countries technological developments have been left to rot.

Every time I visit London, I'm puzzled by the seeming paradox. That system was dug in the 1800s, when light-bulbs and bicycles were still in beta. Over 150 years later, a project like that is out of reach for nearly all western cities. It's like the "we can't go to the moon anymore." It just offends my/our intuition about progress.

The Victorians generally did not give a crap about "old" stuff and willfully and frequently built/rebuilt/demolished/dug-up/forced-out pretty much whatever they wanted or was in their way to get stuff done. They also had a large and cheap labor force with questionable safety protections.

These days we spend a lot of effort on "preserving" older things, you cant just railroad (pun intended!) your way through a suburb demolishing things to lay railway tracks more or less where you want, and obviously there is a lot more focus now on individual worker safety (for the better).

I guess they were able to build things during the "wild west" where rules, procedures, , respect for individual rights & safety, and laws had not yet caught up with industrialisation.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#103

Post by flatfilefan »

mlang23 wrote: post #49
theyinwhy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because DB is really bad. Everyone in Europe knows how bad DB is. It has nothing to do with high speed trains.

Oh yeah, DB is indeed extremely bad. Not really related to high speed trains, but I was relying on assistance to switch trains in germany three times (I am blind), and in all cases, nobody showed up despite me registering a day in advance. In Austria, where I come from, I have been forgotten about exactly once in my whole life. Does tell you something about how well organized the germans apparently are.

German native population is decreasing e.g. here https://www.destatis.de/GPStatistik/servlets/MCRFileNodeServ... So what you deal with is really the business culture or the integration culture in general, not necessarily German culture per se.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#104

Post by kuschku »

dasKrokodil wrote: post #93
[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I think the main problem with the so-called high speed trains in Germany is that they don't have their own rail network, unlike the Shinkansen in Japan or the Maglev trains in China.

The Deutschlandtakt project which is being planned right now actually would include many new rail connections purely for passenger rail, as e.g. the https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnellfahrstrecke_K%C3%B6ln%E... already is.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#105

Post by netcan »

mattlondon wrote: post #102
netcan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I visit London, I'm puzzled by the seeming paradox. That system was dug in the 1800s, when light-bulbs and bicycles were still in beta. Over 150 years later, a project like that is out of reach for nearly all western cities. It's like the "we can't go to the moon anymore." It just offends my/our intuition about progress.

The Victorians generally did not give a crap about "old" stuff and willfully and frequently built/rebuilt/demolished/dug-up/forced-out pretty much whatever they wanted or was in their way to get stuff done. They also had a large and cheap labor force with questionable safety protections. These days we spend a lot of effort on "preserving" older things, you cant just railroad (pun intended!) your way through a suburb…

On the labour point.. it still doesn't make sense to me. Sure, they had very poor oh&s but they also used shovels to dig and baskets to remove fill. It just doesn't seem like the extra cost of safe work practices could possibly offset the productive bump from machinery.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#106

Post by ghaff »

christkv wrote: post #89
mlang23 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I consider outright discrimination. Why exactly would the vote of one individual be less or more worth then a vote from another individual?

I don't make a judgment call towards if one is better than the other but I do firmly believe that 50% + 1 vote is not a mandate. I would really like to see a proper 2/3 majority before you let someone impose their will on the other group. Proportional representation has one interesting side effect it seems. You get more political parties in parliament leaving lunatic fringe groups their own parties and allowing the c…

>You get more political parties in parliament leaving lunatic fringe groups their own parties and allowing the centre mostly to rule.

Or you have to put together a coalition to rule which may include cozying up to one or more "lunatic fringe groups" out of all proportion to how many seats they have.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#107

Post by anoncake »

melling wrote: post #90
anoncake wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Replacing 225 mph trains with 400 mph maglevs should be worth it, especially on long routes like the 800 mile trip between Shanghai and Beijing. That's 2h vs 3.5h, not taking into account acceleration. Time on a train can be used productively, so it isn't lost. Taking opportunity costs into account, it may or may not be worth it. I'm also not sure if 225 mph is the physical limit of conventional trains. Also, faste…

You sure have lots of excuses. “You only save 1.5 hours”. That’s for 180 million passengers a year. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing–Shanghai_high-speed_... Your tactics worked in the US. China does things a little differently. China is building 25,000 miles of high-speed rail. They must be reasoning differently? Think they are testing 480 mph maglevs for a reason?

> Your tactics worked in the US.

That's fascinating considering I've never been there and I think railways (including maglevs when it's a better option than conventional rail) should be the primary transportation system for both passengers and cargo.

FWIW, most of my objections don't even apply when building HSR from scratch.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#108

Post by narag »

rswail wrote: post #100
GorgeRonde wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High speed train works well in France (and it's just 300km/h) because the country is small. Australia is huge. And so is the US. This would make sense along coasts though but you wouldn't be able to cross the country from sea to sea in a few hours of course. What's good with trains is that you can hop in at the very last moment (when the bell rings, happened to me a couple times) and the train stops in the center of…

Australia is huge, but everyone lives in 7 cities (within a margin of error). A high speed rail that covered Melbourne/Albury/Canberra/Sydney/Newcastle/Tamworth?/Brisbane would have a huge impact. The distances are (as the crow flies): Melbourne-Albury: 260km Albury-Canberra: 219km Canberra-Sydney: 247km Sydney-Newcastle: 117km Newcastle-Tamworth: 219km Tamworth-Brisbane: 450km That last leg might need another break…

One more: later, trains will be faster. In the 20 years that I've been in Madrid time to my hometown has come down from 5.5 to little more than 4 hours.

Edit: last hour is not high speed because the rails are regular ones (the train adapts in a ten minutes stop) so the high speed interval went from 4.5 down to 3.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#109

Post by netcan »

fulafel wrote: post #88
netcan wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sydney-Melbourne-Brisbane, even. Between those three, there's over 2,000 flights a week. The land issues are also easier than in most places. Ultimately though, these routes are pretty well serviced by flights. These trains are pretty amazing, but not cheaper or faster than flights.

In trains, most of the cost is the fixed cost of the track and it makes sense to get its utilization way up. So the question of cost vs flights is a very dynamic one. Sounds like a good way for Australia to decrease its CO2 emissions would be to subsidize the track and try to get the air travelers to move over.

co2 is a legitimate reason, and may justify the investment.

Costs.. agreed in theory. But in practice, modern low cost airlines supported by efficient airports are very hard to beat on price. There are economies of scale here too. Very best case scenario, HSTs are similar in price and convenience and it's a matter of taste.

Re: China unveils 600 kph maglev train prototype

#110

Post by aivisol »

adamlett wrote: post #47
zeristor wrote: post #31

At these high velocities air resistance becomes a huge problem, making it impracticable. Wasn't this the main reason for putting very fast trains through evacuated tubes, my copy of the Usborne Book of the Future had this in seventies. Although Musk had a go at reviving it, the ideas Hyperloop has been based on have been around for ages.

There's rumours of a vehicle that has somehow overcome the problem of air resistance and is able to go faster even than this train: "The Aeroplane". Maybe you've heard of it?

In a somowhat less dense air though.
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