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Huawei P30 Pro camera review

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Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#21

Post by usrusr »

alkonaut wrote: post #14
mosselman wrote: post #6

It is crazy how much the quality of the camera's has changed. I haven't looked into DSLR camera's for a few years, since I have one and am not really in the market for one now, but have there been similar advances in that tech? As in, ground breaking higher quality, more compact form factors, etc? You'd imagine if you can get this type of quality from a phone's camera, you'd be able to make truly amazing things happe…

The leap in recent years isn't really in sensor tech so much as in phone manufacturers racing to get the best cameras by increasing the sensor size. E.g. the iPhone5/6 had an image sensor around 15sq mm, and the iPhone XS has a 25sq mm one. This one is over 40sq mm (1/1.7"). The nokia 1020 has a 2/3" sensor (same as the larger compact cameras) which is 58sq mm(!). So while there is are small incremental improvements…

But building optics that can properly illuminate those larger sensors within the confines of current smartphone designs already is impressive progress.

As you said, those physics are hard. I'm no expert but I suspect that the physics would even be strictly impossible for a "proper" lens and they only get away with it because they can now apply corrections computationally which would require lot's of glass/space when done to light pre-sensor instead of to data post-sensor.

This, I think, is the actual innovation: when you don't have to care for distortion or uneven brightness because you can fix that digitally, basic sharpness becomes much easier to achieve. A truly raw sensor readout from those modules would probably look like worse than a Holga picture.

I fully agree with your assessment that this is a one-time free lunch. Looking forward to a computational compact that scales the same lens simplifications to a full frame sensor!

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#22

Post by stevehiehn »

Wonder how the P30 mic is? I own the P20 and the thing I never noticed on any phone but completely hate on this phone is the mic. I'll go to concert and my girlfriend will take the same footage on her S8 and it sound great. The P20 totally melts down. Maybe a lack of dynamic gain? Not sure.

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#23

Post by atomical »

stevehiehn wrote: post #22

Wonder how the P30 mic is? I own the P20 and the thing I never noticed on any phone but completely hate on this phone is the mic. I'll go to concert and my girlfriend will take the same footage on her S8 and it sound great. The P20 totally melts down. Maybe a lack of dynamic gain? Not sure.

How is the mic for talking on the phone? I guess it might not matter since everyone is torturing everyone else with speaker phone and ear buds.

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#24

Post by alkonaut »

usrusr wrote: post #21
alkonaut wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leap in recent years isn't really in sensor tech so much as in phone manufacturers racing to get the best cameras by increasing the sensor size. E.g. the iPhone5/6 had an image sensor around 15sq mm, and the iPhone XS has a 25sq mm one. This one is over 40sq mm (1/1.7"). The nokia 1020 has a 2/3" sensor (same as the larger compact cameras) which is 58sq mm(!). So while there is are small incremental improvements…

But building optics that can properly illuminate those larger sensors within the confines of current smartphone designs already is impressive progress. As you said, those physics are hard. I'm no expert but I suspect that the physics would even be strictly impossible for a "proper" lens and they only get away with it because they can now apply corrections computationally which would require lot's of glass/space when…

Yes (more) computantional imaging is probably the next frontier. We already see the double and triple cameras (some times for depth info, some times for different FOV's) but I'm guessing N modules in some grid pattern + computation can emulate a much larger camera without making it much thicker like a single large sensor). I think I saw such a prototype if I remember correctly. If it works, it's also quite similar to that black hole imaging tech which is funny.

I'd also be happy to get a phone with a detatchable camera module you could bring when you need it. So long as it's much smaller and cheaper than a camera, it would still be better than carrying a compact camera and a phone (which was the problem these good cameras solved in the first place).

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#26

Post by solitus »

alkonaut wrote: post #14
mosselman wrote: post #6

It is crazy how much the quality of the camera's has changed. I haven't looked into DSLR camera's for a few years, since I have one and am not really in the market for one now, but have there been similar advances in that tech? As in, ground breaking higher quality, more compact form factors, etc? You'd imagine if you can get this type of quality from a phone's camera, you'd be able to make truly amazing things happe…

The leap in recent years isn't really in sensor tech so much as in phone manufacturers racing to get the best cameras by increasing the sensor size. E.g. the iPhone5/6 had an image sensor around 15sq mm, and the iPhone XS has a 25sq mm one. This one is over 40sq mm (1/1.7"). The nokia 1020 has a 2/3" sensor (same as the larger compact cameras) which is 58sq mm(!). So while there is are small incremental improvements…

Fujifilm now offers a medium format camera for a price close to the full frame cameras of its competitors (sometimes cheaper).

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#27

Post by Yizahi »

mosselman wrote: post #6

It is crazy how much the quality of the camera's has changed. I haven't looked into DSLR camera's for a few years, since I have one and am not really in the market for one now, but have there been similar advances in that tech? As in, ground breaking higher quality, more compact form factors, etc? You'd imagine if you can get this type of quality from a phone's camera, you'd be able to make truly amazing things happe…

I recently looked at 1" sensor compact cameras, including several generations back, since they are still sold today. Main improvements in the sensor was backside illumination (same as in phone sensors, maybe phones were earlier) and sensors with DRAM attached as a cache for those 4K @100500 FPS insane videos. And technically, just attaching DRAM doesn't mean that sensor itself has changed. You can see in the same model lineup how manufacturer puts same exact sensor for several generations in row, improving other stuff. I guess in general sensors are at a limit, unless some breakthrough will happen. Phones improved extremely fast recently but still small optics are dark and AF is usually not great.

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#28

Post by cs702 »

> If you still needed a reason to spend money on a compact camera, it would have been for zoom reach, as even the best smartphone cameras could not provide usable zoom image quality beyond a 5x factor. This has now changed with the Huawei P30 Pro and its innovative zoom system that uses folded optics and a super-resolution algorithm, which finally makes usable 10x zoom on smartphones a reality. The zoom on its own will make the new Huawei an extremely tempting option for many mobile photographers, but the camera performs very well in almost all other areas as well.

To enable up to 10x usable (!) zoom, this phone has three lenses, the longest of which is positioned vertically along the body of the phone, with a mirror reflecting light to a sensor that is positioned perpendicular to the screen, at the bottom of the phone:

    ___
   /   \ 
  |   / |
  |  /
The advantages of this phone's camera are rooted in physics, not software.

--

EDITS: (1) adjusted the diagram to make it a bit nicer-looking; (2) replaced the word "optical" with "usable" in the second paragraph (in my mind, the two words have been interchangeable for describing zoom lenses, until very recently).

Re: Huawei P30 Pro camera review

#29

Post by stevehiehn »

atomical wrote: post #23
stevehiehn wrote: post #22

Wonder how the P30 mic is? I own the P20 and the thing I never noticed on any phone but completely hate on this phone is the mic. I'll go to concert and my girlfriend will take the same footage on her S8 and it sound great. The P20 totally melts down. Maybe a lack of dynamic gain? Not sure.

How is the mic for talking on the phone? I guess it might not matter since everyone is torturing everyone else with speaker phone and ear buds.

It's fine for any low volume stuff like conversation. My guess is that it has a fixed mic gain that does not adjust for loud environments. Not sure though.
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