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UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

theguardian.com

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Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#51

Post by hudibras »

pc2g4d wrote: post #49
ilaksh wrote: post #21

Does this mean that people can return to those islands? Certainly seems unlikely they would close the military base unless they were forced to so do by some military or substantial economic action. This type of thing is what makes me worried about the long term sustainability of US security. The paradigm is not really rule of law when it comes right down to it, it's might makes right. This is an inherently insecure p…

I'd imagine this is the sort of situation where Mauritius uses this embarrassing (for the UK and US) defeat to pressure the UK/US for a lucrative base hosting agreement. There's little value to Mauritius themselves in having a massive naval complex on an isolated island, their economy can't sustain the sort of military that would benefit from it. Their best use of it would likely be to reestablish sovereignty and the…

Mauritius has made it clear to the US that they do not intend to change the status of the base in any way. It will simply be on a Mauritian island instead of a UK island.

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#52

Post by toyg »

tluyben2 wrote: post #41

I am not really interested in politics, but I am curious why countries abstain. They surely have an opinion; my countries (born in NL, live in ES) had NL abstain and ES vote against the UK. Now I can understand why Spain voted; a lot of people are of the opinion that UK left EU and they should suffer a lot for it. It's a underbelly thing but it's quite accepted here. They want Gibraltar and they want to see them (UK)…

UN votes like these are a function of timing as much as of the actual content. Delegations trade votes to gain support in this or that ongoing issue, at the UN and elsewhere.

It just so happens that 1) the UK, thanks to Brexit, has basically lost all influence it had on other EU countries. EU members are more interested in gathering support on key votes in Bruxelles and Strasbourg; but the UK now cannot “trade” anything of that sort. 2) Again because of more and more stuff being cleared at EU level, the US has less and less to “sell” to individual member states. This goes double when the current administration is unabashedly isolationist, protectionist, and downright warmongering on trade issues, giving a first-line position to the likes of John Bolton who actively despise the UN and everything it stands for.

UK and US are currently isolated at the diplomatic level in ways unseen since WWII. The best they can expect from European countries, even when they share actual interests (like on decolonisation) is the occasional abstention. I expect we will see more and more similar votes coming to pass, in the next two years.

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#53

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

tluyben2 wrote: post #41

I am not really interested in politics, but I am curious why countries abstain. They surely have an opinion; my countries (born in NL, live in ES) had NL abstain and ES vote against the UK. Now I can understand why Spain voted; a lot of people are of the opinion that UK left EU and they should suffer a lot for it. It's a underbelly thing but it's quite accepted here. They want Gibraltar and they want to see them (UK)…

I'm sure that Spain would vote against the UK irrespective of Brexit. If you have some territory illegally occupied by the British in your very country, it's obvious that you are going to vote against the British occupying territory elsewhere. It's coherent with Spanish foreign policy for many decades, from far before Brexit was even a talking point.

I haven't noticed any will of the Spanish government to punish the UK for Brexit. That might be an opinion of laypeople, but not of the government as far as I know. In fact, I think Spain was the first country to sign an agreement so that the British can keep entering the country without a visa after Brexit, as long as there is reciprocity.

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#55

Post by narag »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #53
tluyben2 wrote: post #41

I am not really interested in politics, but I am curious why countries abstain. They surely have an opinion; my countries (born in NL, live in ES) had NL abstain and ES vote against the UK. Now I can understand why Spain voted; a lot of people are of the opinion that UK left EU and they should suffer a lot for it. It's a underbelly thing but it's quite accepted here. They want Gibraltar and they want to see them (UK)…

I'm sure that Spain would vote against the UK irrespective of Brexit. If you have some territory illegally occupied by the British in your very country, it's obvious that you are going to vote against the British occupying territory elsewhere. It's coherent with Spanish foreign policy for many decades, from far before Brexit was even a talking point. I haven't noticed any will of the Spanish government to punish the…

There's an obvious reason for that. Many Spaniards from the nearby towns work in Gibraltar.

I can't talk for everyone here, but most people I know couldn't care less about sovereignty. The huge problem with Gibraltar is smuggling and money laundering.

Edit: also, there's a common belief that we haven't pressured about the Gibraltar status because it could trigger that Morocco will do the same with Ceuta and Melilla. I can't really know, but it's really strange that after twenty years in the EU nothing has changed.

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#56

Post by arethuza »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #53
tluyben2 wrote: post #41

I am not really interested in politics, but I am curious why countries abstain. They surely have an opinion; my countries (born in NL, live in ES) had NL abstain and ES vote against the UK. Now I can understand why Spain voted; a lot of people are of the opinion that UK left EU and they should suffer a lot for it. It's a underbelly thing but it's quite accepted here. They want Gibraltar and they want to see them (UK)…

I'm sure that Spain would vote against the UK irrespective of Brexit. If you have some territory illegally occupied by the British in your very country, it's obvious that you are going to vote against the British occupying territory elsewhere. It's coherent with Spanish foreign policy for many decades, from far before Brexit was even a talking point. I haven't noticed any will of the Spanish government to punish the…

That would perhaps be a bit hypocritical of Spain given their own enclaves like Melilla and Ceuta in Morocco - both of which are claimed by Morocco?

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#57

Post by narag »

arethuza wrote: post #56
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that Spain would vote against the UK irrespective of Brexit. If you have some territory illegally occupied by the British in your very country, it's obvious that you are going to vote against the British occupying territory elsewhere. It's coherent with Spanish foreign policy for many decades, from far before Brexit was even a talking point. I haven't noticed any will of the Spanish government to punish the…

That would perhaps be a bit hypocritical of Spain given their own enclaves like Melilla and Ceuta in Morocco - both of which are claimed by Morocco?

There are subtle differences. Gibraltar was Spanish before The Utrech Treaty, that even included some expiration date IIRC. Ceuta and Melilla were Spanish towns before Morocco even existed. Not that it will matter in the long run...

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#58

Post by PunchTornado »

zakum1 wrote: post #40
papaf wrote: post #4

This is a British source that describes why the Chagos islands are so contentious: https://politicsfirst.co.uk/editorials/britains-shame-the-et...

It is staggering to hear arguments justifying occupied land that has absolutely no connection to the uk. It shows how poorly the west still understands the evil of colonialism. Regardless of the ancestry of the people living in any territory, they deserve to have sovereignty over their lives.

yes, USA should give Alaska and Hawaii to the local people

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#59

Post by jonathanstrange »

PunchTornado wrote: post #58
zakum1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is staggering to hear arguments justifying occupied land that has absolutely no connection to the uk. It shows how poorly the west still understands the evil of colonialism. Regardless of the ancestry of the people living in any territory, they deserve to have sovereignty over their lives.

yes, USA should give Alaska and Hawaii to the local people

Well, principally yes. Or, at least, the US could acknowledge the massive genocide that European settlers have committed in the past, rather than glorifying the "good ol' days" of expansion and slaughtering people and their cattle, and give the indigenous people some real recompensation for the atrocities that have been done to their ancestors.

Re: UK suffers defeat in UN vote on Chagos Islands

#60

Post by tomohawk »

Don't kid yourself that this is about the islander's claims. They are being used as human shields.

Diego Garcia is a very strategic location. It will always be controlled by one of the great powers. Who would benefit most if the US were to leave? Who has the most to gain? Countries like China and Iran.

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