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Show HN: Write code using natural language

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Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#101

Post by TBF-RnD »

tylerhou wrote: post #87
TBF-RnD wrote: post #83

Okay so I came here expecring something different. Turns out that this is a stack overflow search engine. So ever since I read a book on AI I have been pondering on when and how computers will steal our jobs. I do have an idea on the subject though if anybody is interested in working with me on this please comment: So with github and loads and loads of other open source repos don't we have enough training data. Could…

https://arxiv.org/abs/1904.02818 Disclaimer: I work at Google.

Thank you and see my response to thomasahle!

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#102

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

TBF-RnD wrote: post #99
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Couldn't throwing loads and loads of processing power on training an AI on commits create an intelligence with an "actual" understanding of day to day programming problems. I'm curious to know why you think it's possible to create "an intelligence" with "actual understanding" thanks to lots of processing power and data. What makes you think this is actually doable? Do you think that this has been done before, for…

Okay so seeing how a brain is made up from 86 billion neurons. 16 of those in the most recently developed cerebral cortex. Randomly creating a set of random configuration of billions of neurons and then subjecting them to simulated evolutionary evolutionary preasure on the basis of how close they come to A) the correct solution B) compiling code that runs C) tests if available* Kill of the worst performing networks.…

>> How would it work exactly, I wouldn't know which is sort of the point. But sooner or later representations of abstractions within the code would appear within the graphs.

Sorry to be mean but all this sounds awfully confused and terribly hand-wavy. It sounds like you think that stuff would just magically work like you want it, if only you mix up enough ingredients (data, computation, neural networks, evolution, abstractions, representations, graphs...).

Well, stuff doesn't just magickally work. Lots of people (like, literally thousands) are training machine learning models and not a single model has ever come close to "understanding" anything. I'd start from trying to figure out why that is the case, and then see if something can be done about it.

Otherwise -and, sorry again, but- all these are mere time-wasting fantasies.

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#103

Post by TBF-RnD »

machiaweliczny wrote: post #98
TBF-RnD wrote: post #83

Okay so I came here expecring something different. Turns out that this is a stack overflow search engine. So ever since I read a book on AI I have been pondering on when and how computers will steal our jobs. I do have an idea on the subject though if anybody is interested in working with me on this please comment: So with github and loads and loads of other open source repos don't we have enough training data. Could…

The possible models where change C fits are unlimited. Code describes only behaviour but it's hard to guess intent. So unless languages won't be just specification languages (as close to describing intent as possible) then I doubt it's possible. Anyway already part od programming work is deciding what you really want. Maybe that's where machines might help - with discoverability. I actually think that more likely is…

The same thing applies for a human to try to solve a problem as well doesn't it? And we have bugs and inefficent code don't we?

I remember seing a talk on youtube about a lisp program finding every program that would fit a certain solution. So reasoning about things like this is what a lot of lisp's gurus are doing all day long basically.

You are probably right about AI being used in an assitive part at first. I imagine it'll be a while until people dare putting their business logic in the hands of an AI.

Probably CRUD applications would be the first to be automated. Boring tedious work that has been done a million times. And unhappy coders are probably more prone to create bugs make bad decisions. Also there are litteraly thousands and thousands of implementations doing the same thing with variantions that are more or less just flavour.

Then again if you are at analyzing all open source software ever written. Why not plow through all open source issue trackers at the same time. If you found the top 20% bugs that cause 80% of the issues and have get an AI that solves 20% you'll be a very very rich man if you feel like it.

So don't expect to tell a computer to figure out the best way to create top off the line lossless video codec anytime soon or anything else. Then again it's hard to find a coder that you could tell that and get back the results you wanted either...

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#104

Post by Wowfunhappy »

microtherion wrote: post #74
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #72

One of the things I really like about Applescript is that, at least for simple tasks, the code reads as standard english. This isn't to say you can type anything in english and Applescript will interpret it, just that the correct syntax also happens to form real sentences. Here is how I tell QuickTime to play NPR: set WNYCAddress to "http://www.wnyc.org/stream/wnyc-fm939/aac.pls" tell application "QuickTime Player" t…

Wicked tongues have called AppleScript "Visual COBOL".

Are we just comparing any old-ish languages we don't like to COBOL now?

Applescript has its problems but it's one of my favorite features in macOS. Maybe not the language itself, but the Apple Events capability. There's no equivalent in Windows other than AutoHotKey type stuff.

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#105

Post by tracer4201 »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #102
TBF-RnD wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so seeing how a brain is made up from 86 billion neurons. 16 of those in the most recently developed cerebral cortex. Randomly creating a set of random configuration of billions of neurons and then subjecting them to simulated evolutionary evolutionary preasure on the basis of how close they come to A) the correct solution B) compiling code that runs C) tests if available* Kill of the worst performing networks.…

>> How would it work exactly, I wouldn't know which is sort of the point. But sooner or later representations of abstractions within the code would appear within the graphs. Sorry to be mean but all this sounds awfully confused and terribly hand-wavy. It sounds like you think that stuff would just magically work like you want it, if only you mix up enough ingredients (data, computation, neural networks, evolution, ab…

When op used the word “understanding”, I interpreted it as some program that can provide code snippets, skeletons, or whatever abstraction in some contextual way so it’s not just a dumb table lookup.

You’re post is unnecessarily pessimistic and generally bad faith.

And maybe ops vision can’t be realized today, but if someone is thinking beyond the current state of the art, it’s short sighted and incredibly ignorant to dismiss them as time wasting fantasies.

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#106

Post by pvg »

llamataboot wrote: post #52
pvg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This tool is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike Inform, though. The 'programming' part is still done in a regular old language like Swift. The tool finds and/or generates snippets for you and plonks them into the Swift code you're actually writing.

yes, I see that, I should have been more clear that I knew it was a separate domain. This looks more like extended and interesting macros. My only point was that when you move towards being able to express things in natural language - whether as programming or even getting Siri to call your friend, the frustration level can be much higher if it doesn't work as expected. There is something about getting to talk in "na…

I think the difference remains that the things you are talking about have natural-language-ness as an inherent property with all its promise and baggage. Whereas the tool's mention of 'natural language' is almost incidental. You could rename it 'a command line for snippets' and still accurately describe it.

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#108

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

tracer4201 wrote: post #105
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> How would it work exactly, I wouldn't know which is sort of the point. But sooner or later representations of abstractions within the code would appear within the graphs. Sorry to be mean but all this sounds awfully confused and terribly hand-wavy. It sounds like you think that stuff would just magically work like you want it, if only you mix up enough ingredients (data, computation, neural networks, evolution, ab…

When op used the word “understanding”, I interpreted it as some program that can provide code snippets, skeletons, or whatever abstraction in some contextual way so it’s not just a dumb table lookup. You’re post is unnecessarily pessimistic and generally bad faith. And maybe ops vision can’t be realized today, but if someone is thinking beyond the current state of the art, it’s short sighted and incredibly ignorant t…

Assuming the OP expects to gain something from this conversation, the most benefit that can be gained is from telling them why their idea makes no sense. That is what "good faith" means and that is what I did.

Your comment, on the other hand, seems to be confusing good faith with indulgence. Just saying "yes" to people and being nice to them does them no favours.

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#109

Post by microtherion »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #104
microtherion wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wicked tongues have called AppleScript "Visual COBOL".

Are we just comparing any old-ish languages we don't like to COBOL now? Applescript has its problems but it's one of my favorite features in macOS. Maybe not the language itself, but the Apple Events capability. There's no equivalent in Windows other than AutoHotKey type stuff.

For AppleScript, the analogy seemed apt, as both AppleScript and COBOL set out to design a syntax resembling conversational English more than a typical programming language would.

Re: Show HN: Write code using natural language

#110

Post by Wowfunhappy »

microtherion wrote: post #109
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we just comparing any old-ish languages we don't like to COBOL now? Applescript has its problems but it's one of my favorite features in macOS. Maybe not the language itself, but the Apple Events capability. There's no equivalent in Windows other than AutoHotKey type stuff.

For AppleScript, the analogy seemed apt, as both AppleScript and COBOL set out to design a syntax resembling conversational English more than a typical programming language would.

Thank you, I've never actually seen COBOL code (presumably a good thing...)
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