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SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

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Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#161

Post by nickpsecurity »

akling wrote: post #136
hardbop200 wrote: post #133

Awesome work! Just curious: Why did you choose to take on the entire OS instead of building on top of an existing distro as a base?

Thanks hardbop200! Partly it's because I'm the kind of person who just loves hacking on tall stacks. Before this, I was doing browsers for many years, which has many traits in common with operating systems. Speaking more emotionally, I feel like *nix used to be a lot of fun and full of hacker's spirit, and it's just not like that anymore. Things aren't simple anymore, and they can't easily be taken apart and understo…

If you like understandable tools, you might enjoy some of the projects the bootstrapping crowd posted to the page below. It's not very organized since it was just a dump site for work that a small crowd of people were taking inspiration from.

https://bootstrapping.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#162

Post by sprash »

repolfx wrote: post #134
sprash wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see any innovation. To me to Windows95 UI (not the OS) is peak productivity usability. All UI innovations that came later were just distractions except maybe tiling window managers and the "Exposé" function in Mac Os X which later was completely botched in Snow Leopard. At some point no further innovation is required. I'd rather see innovation on another level: Do away with C and introduce a new programming…

You don't need a new programming language for that - any type safe, memory safe language with capabilities can do it. Java or C# are good candidates. Especially with the work on Project Loom in the JVM, you could get cooperative multi-tasking controlled by the compiler rather than using processor interrupts (in theory). See Singularity for an example of what kind of interesting OS architectures are enabled by it. The…

It turns out the perfect OS already exists: Inferno OS [1]. It doesn't need a MMU and runs with less than 1 MB of RAM. I did not dive into Limbo yet but at first glance it looks rather sane.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(operating_system)

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#163

Post by jxdxbx »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #149
jxdxbx wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite somewhat-rethought OS is GoboLinux, which is not as different as Plan9 since it's basically just Linux, but it totally throws out the traditional Unix folder hierarchy of /bin, /etc, /var and so on. I also like the simplicity of classic Mac OS where you install a system extension by just copying it to a special folder and you uninstall an app by just deleting it (which sort of works with current macOS but…

Believe it or not, there have been several attempts to bring that kind of application management simplicity to Linux: ROX AppDirs, GNUStep's AppBundle implementation, Klik, and AppImage to name a few. They have all been rejected by the community at large, sadly.

Yeah the usual argument is that package managers make worrying about the tidiness of the file system unnecessary. But on Linux at least it just never really works out.

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#164

Post by IggleSniggle »

Jaruzel wrote: post #140
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop this. It's condescending and part of the reason no one like tech people. It's also one of the core reasons the Linux Desktop never took off: "you don't need that, you just need (simple usecase that I envisioned because it was easy)."

Really? I'd argue that Android and iOS have proven that the simpler the GUI, the easier it is for the masses to use them. Imagine if working a car was as complicated as your average desktop OS. There would be a lot less people driving that's for sure.

A lot less people driving, but the people who did drive would have a higher chance of being able to repair them without going to a specialist.

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#165

Post by golergka »

reaperducer wrote: post #25

I think this is an impressive achievement, and certainly something I could never do. But I'm a little disappointed in the state of desktop operating systems these days. I don't see any innovation. Every OS is just splashing chrome on the same WIMP paradigm that's been available to consumers for 35 years. Maybe I'm looking for the equivalent of a flying car, but I wish someone would come up with an OS, or even just an…

This is one of the most interesting OS projects I've seen in recent years: https://github.com/dzavalishin/phantomuserland

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#166

Post by akling »

logicprog wrote: post #65

I would so love to contribute to this! I love the layout, aesthetic, and the approach to the internals that you've taken; I would use this in a heartbeat to be honest. Unfortunately although I know C++ I don't really know much about OSdev. If there's any way I can help, I have a few months of free time (summer break) that I'm looking to fill!

There’s so much more to operating systems than what people usually think of as “OS dev”.

Wanna write a Tetris game for an obscure new OS? Here’s your chance! How about a bitmap editor (like MS Paint)? Maybe some cool graphical effect demos? Perhaps you’d like to write a telnet client? An FTP client? Or a disk usage visualization tool! Just look at all the stuff that comes with an OS like Win2K or your average Linux distro. :)

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#167

Post by cr0sh »

akling wrote: post #159
marktangotango wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious if you were familiar with Wirths work on the Oberon system and what he and another contributor were able accomplish, when starting this project? What were some of your inspirations?

I was not aware of the Oberon system. It looks interesting, I will read more about it, thank you :) The inspiration for this system comes from using Visual Basic as a kid and just having fun trying to mimic the Microsoft Office look&feel of those days. It also comes from using Slackware Linux and realizing that everything can be done with text commands, and configured with text files.

I noticed the form designer and properties in the screenshot posted in the repo.

Does that system only design forms, and you have to manually "glue" them to code - or is there a visual programming system behind it?

I guess what I'm getting at is that you mentioned here being inspired by VB from your youth - so I was wondering how far you have taken that particular part?

I worked professionally with VB for over a decade (from VB3 to VB6) years ago; BASIC in general, and VB as well - both hold places in my heart, since that is where I started my coding journey to a career in it (I started when I was 10-11 years old, back in 1984, using a TRS-80 Color Computer 2, which ran a version of BASIC from Microsoft).

This is a great project, something I've seen posted before here and elsewhere, but it's always worth another look when it pops up.

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#168

Post by cr0sh »

reaperducer wrote: post #25

I think this is an impressive achievement, and certainly something I could never do. But I'm a little disappointed in the state of desktop operating systems these days. I don't see any innovation. Every OS is just splashing chrome on the same WIMP paradigm that's been available to consumers for 35 years. Maybe I'm looking for the equivalent of a flying car, but I wish someone would come up with an OS, or even just an…

> Is there a college lab or a research department or some other place where people are trying really different things?

From a UI perspective, I've found this to be very innovative and interesting - but I'm not sure how practical it is:

https://dynamicland.org/

...and in a more open fashion and inspired by it:

https://paperprograms.org/

Both of these appear to be something known as "tangible user interfaces" - or are a subset of such; if you google around, you'll find a ton of research on such systems. A similar kind of interface is the "augmented reality sandbox":

https://arsandbox.ucdavis.edu/

And indeed AR is a part of all of this; but rather than wearing a headset (or using a phone) to overlay virtual objects or such on the real world, instead projectors are used, which in effect makes it easier to use and more natural, while also allowing for easier collaboration.

I have a theory that LISP or a LISP-inspired language (perhaps LOGO) might also be something that could be incorporated into a new system (I honestly believe that both of these languages haven't been as fully explored as they deserve - LOGO moreso than LISP).

Lastly - the idea of a DSL (Domain Specific Language) might also have relevance to a new paradigm; I've mentioned this particular offering in the past:

https://www.jetbrains.com/mps/

https://github.com/JetBrains/MPS

I'm only as familiar with it as what I've read about it, both on JetBrains site and elsewhere, but it looks both interesting and promising.

Re: SerenityOS – a graphical Unix-like OS for x86, with 90s aesthetics

#169

Post by cr0sh »

somatic wrote: post #67
nitrogen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boot up an old Linux distro from around 2001 and compare WindowMaker, AfterStep, Fluxbox, KDE, Gnome, Enlightenment, and half a dozen others. Compare those to fictional UIs seen in movies, Hypercard, visual development systems like the ancient Klik n Play or modern Scratch or MaxMSP, etc. Learn about OLE (object linking and embedding) and document-centric vs. app-centric computing. Think about all the different ways…

This strikes me as profound and I would like to hear more. Do you have other writings? Are there any books about this? Do you think about this often?

On a historical note (and most of it has come to pass, though maybe not in the way they wanted it, and certainly not as "unified" as they conceptualized it), check out the Xerox PARC project that was termed "tabs, pads, and boards":

https://norrisnode.com/tabs-pads-and-boards/

http://lowendmac.com/ed/rosen/10ar/ubiquitous-computing.html

https://www.ics.uci.edu/~redmiles/ics203b-SQ05/papers/Weiser...

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