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Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

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Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#191

Post by duxup »

sprash wrote: post #189
duxup wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know immigrants have nothing of value to offer to the Japanese people. I don't know how that makes sense. People can't offer people anything outside of some described cultural boundaries?

Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. Foreigners would drag down the average which mathematically means nothing else than effectively extracting resources from the host society. The exchange of ideas can always happen via tourism, Internet, business or whatever. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the exchange of ideas…

You keep saying "multiculturalism" but I'm not sure what you mean.

You talk about tribalism and war, that's a choice someone makes, and that's on those who choose it.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#192

Post by duxup »

sanxiyn wrote: post #73
philliphaydon wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even about the freedoms you get working in other countries. Once had a Japan client change some settings in their account which cause a different workflow to occur. I had to write an incident report for the issue. It's like "if you change A to B, B will happen instead of A... If you want A to happen, select A..." Another job we were processing the POS system records and tracking sales / inventory. The dates…

This sounds normal and not specific to Japan.

I've worked with Japanese customers.

What he described is quite unique to Japan, particularly how many completely run of the mill situations (hey how does this widget work) go on for weeks of expiation. I'm talking about even completely predictable things. Like "Hey if I turn this thing off, is it off?" will start weeks long series of questions.

I don't fully understand it, but it is a Japanese thing for sure.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#193

Post by mistermann »

Apocryphon wrote: post #92
mistermann wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but back to my question: what mechanism do you use to add specific details where none existed before?

I can't speak for the commenter, but it could be a simple yet rigorous heuristic of seeing a particular buzzword used in certain conversations, reading the context statement that the buzzword is employed under, and matching that statement to a particular ideological narrative that is often prevalent in discussion circles such as HN.

I just realized the original person that made the comment wasn't the one that replied, my bad.

But I agree, this is indeed what happened. Another similarly true explanation is, he used his imagination.

It's interesting to me how judging people based on heuristics is sometimes fine, even admirable, but other times it is Very Very Bad.

It's also funny how these types of ideas seem to offend people, judging by voting anyways. No looking behind the real curtain or something like that I suppose.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#194

Post by GoblinSlayer »

themagician wrote: post #12
jlawson wrote: post #6

So sad. Another ancient unique culture to be blended and homogenized into the global mass of undifferentiated Starbucks society. At least the megacorporations will get the cheap labor and undifferentiated consumers they want.

What is the alternative? All of the “developed” nations need immigration to prevent the social systems from completely falling apart. Our entire financial system is based on increasing population growth and the young paying to support the old. There aren’t enough young people. Without immigration, pensions, healthcare, social safety nets, property values… it all implodes. We go back to 1930 where old people just die…

Childbirth can be encouraged, it's just not done.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#195

Post by pandaman »

random42_ wrote: post #186
omot wrote: post #178

As a naturalized US citizen, I had to give up my Japanese citizenship. It was a hard decision to make since half my immediate family is still Japanese and I still love Japan. In part I never forgave Japan that they forced me to make this decision. Which is why I'm excited for a more ethnically diverse Japan. As a resident of the Bay Area I only see diversity as an advantage of introducing new thoughts and creativity.…

Did you actually had to give up on your Japanese citizenship? I know that when taking the oath you reject all other citizenship you may have but AFAIK this is not enforced, meaning you don't have to go to your embassy and formally require to give up on your citizenship. Really curious to know more about this.

The US does not care if you have any other citizenships but some countries do. E.g. Japan will revoke its citizenship on the citizens who obtained another one [1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nationality_law#Loss_...

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#196

Post by omot »

random42_ wrote: post #186
omot wrote: post #178

As a naturalized US citizen, I had to give up my Japanese citizenship. It was a hard decision to make since half my immediate family is still Japanese and I still love Japan. In part I never forgave Japan that they forced me to make this decision. Which is why I'm excited for a more ethnically diverse Japan. As a resident of the Bay Area I only see diversity as an advantage of introducing new thoughts and creativity.…

Did you actually had to give up on your Japanese citizenship? I know that when taking the oath you reject all other citizenship you may have but AFAIK this is not enforced, meaning you don't have to go to your embassy and formally require to give up on your citizenship. Really curious to know more about this.

I actually got work in Japan. My passport was expired, and I went to renew it. They always ask how you're staying in the states and to show evidence. At that point my green card was expired and I only had naturalization to show. At that point I had to give up my Japanese citizenship, in order to get a visa. I don't remember if that was the exact reason but I was able to get away with dual for a while. Maybe if I tried renewing it in Japan it wouldn't have been a problem?

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#197

Post by sprash »

duxup wrote: post #191
sprash wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. Foreigners would drag down the average which mathematically means nothing else than effectively extracting resources from the host society. The exchange of ideas can always happen via tourism, Internet, business or whatever. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the exchange of ideas…

You keep saying "multiculturalism" but I'm not sure what you mean. You talk about tribalism and war, that's a choice someone makes, and that's on those who choose it.

> that's a choice someone makes

If you have a vastly non-tribalistic society (.e.g. western society) and introduce masses of highly tribalistic immigrants then the host society has no choice but to either become tribalistic itself or die. There is no choice. The survivor will always be the strongest, most ruthless, brutal and tribalisitc tribe.

We had a great technology that shielded us from that kind of tribal conflict and allowed people to care about unrelated hobbies like exploring the universe: Borders.

But it seems those became out of fashion.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#198

Post by travv0 »

sprash wrote: post #189
duxup wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know immigrants have nothing of value to offer to the Japanese people. I don't know how that makes sense. People can't offer people anything outside of some described cultural boundaries?

Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe. Foreigners would drag down the average which mathematically means nothing else than effectively extracting resources from the host society. The exchange of ideas can always happen via tourism, Internet, business or whatever. Multiculturalism has nothing to do with the exchange of ideas…

> Having seen how Japanese work I know that the work ethic, reliability and efficiency can not be matched by anybody else on the globe.

You certainly haven't worked in a Japanese office then. It's also strange that you attribute the efficiency of their service industry to the workers being Japanese (though a good chunk of them actually aren't) and not simply to the techniques the workers are trained to use, the efficient layout of the stores, the equipment used, etc.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#199

Post by rockinghigh »

bliblah wrote: post #190
random42_ wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you actually had to give up on your Japanese citizenship? I know that when taking the oath you reject all other citizenship you may have but AFAIK this is not enforced, meaning you don't have to go to your embassy and formally require to give up on your citizenship. Really curious to know more about this.

This is very accurate, countries do not share citizenship data so it is impossible for them to know who has 2 or more passports. I have several friends that have remained in possessions of their previous passports and still renew them in case they ever need them.

No, it’s highly dependent on the countries involved. When you apply for the second citizenship, that country knows about your first citizenship. They can decide to force you to choose one. And the first country may or may not allow you to give up that citizenship. As an example, you can read about dual citizenship in Europe here: https://m.dw.com/cda/en/dual-citizenship-in-europe-which-rul...

You will see that the rules differ by country.

Re: Japan Begins Experiment of Opening to Immigration

#200

Post by bencollier49 »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #168
slang800 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If successful people are having fewer kids than unsuccessful people then haven't we created a dysgenic system?

You can't increase success by breeding successful people, because success is created from loss, eventually they add up to zero.

You're arguing that value creation is a zero-sum game?
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