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Common Muscular Weaknesses

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Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#101
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength I like this gist of his program, but as someone who did it years ago, there's a few things I'd change. First, remove cleans, and add barbell rows. Lots of people make this adjustment. I don't find the exercise to be beginner friendly. Second, deadlifts will be there own focused day almost immediately. Outside of one's probably first month, doing squats + bench + deadlift is nearly…

It's absolutely possible to continue doing squats + bench + deadlifts in the same workout for a very long time. After about 6 months I moved to deadlifting only once per week, but it was still done on my "heavy day" after setting PRs on my squat and press/bench press. > Mark's hybrid squat, and low bar squats, put a huge amount of pressure on your elbows and shoulders. I had this problem, and it turned out to be a fo…

Yeah, I've been training for years and I'll still do deadlift work on a day I squat. Deadlift volume alone is so low it feels like a waste to just do that for my primary movement that day.

The only time I get shoulder & elbow pain squatting is when I'm going too heavy on volume and my form is breaking down. Otherwise I don't notice it.

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#102
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had IT band and hamstring attachment tendinitis. I went to the best orthopedic doctor in the city. I explained my symptoms very clearly. He did identify the IT band tendinitis and walked out of the room. I had to catch him "after the appointment" to ask him why the back of my knee hurts then. He THEN did additional tests and identified the other source of the problem. This is my experience, always. At best, the doc…

An unfortunate amount of my interaction with doctors has just been waiting for them to diagnose me or a family member with the same thing I already figured out is probably going on, so we can get the drugs or treatment to fix it. Self-diagnosis on with the Web has a bad name for a good reason, but with a critical eye you can nail what the doctor's gonna say damn near 100% of the time, or at least narrow it down to th…

Doctors in America are certified members of a caste system. In traditional caste systems, your caste was determined by blood (for example it might work like: if your dad was a doctor, you could be a doctor) but in contemporary society we’ve replaced these with government licensed caste systems: if you’ve paid your dues and gone through the certification process imposed by the alphabet soup of government bureaucracy and special interest lobbyists, you’re allowed to be a doctor; anybody who hasn’t gone through this process will be arrested if they attempt to provide medical services.

Predictably, the violently enforced caste system allows all manner of incompetence and impunity to reign free — if the legistlatively enforced educational / certification standards are letting total incompetents slip through the cracks, tough luck. You can try to change them through the democratic process, but the current members of the caste have massive influence on these institutions and a vested interest in keeping it just the way it is: extremely expensive for us in exchange for minimal standards of quality for them.

This outcome is entirely predictable: independent thought is the basis of all knowledge, so when a group outlaws it in some branch of human endeavor, there’s no mystery as to why that branch of the endeavor becomes fraudulent. I’m admittedly being somewhat obtuse here, since thanks to the genius of the first amendment I’m still free to think whatever I want about the medical caste and complain about it on the internet. What’s restricted are the actions I can take — for example if I wanted to build “Lambda School for Doctors”, I couldn’t legally do so without following all of the educational/certification protocols imposed on us through legislation by the status quo medical caste (which defeats the whole purpose).

But because actions are downstream from ideas (thoughts) about how to act, restricting individual’s actions in this way is importantly similar to restricting freedom of thought, and has analogous consequences. Until we reform our laws to allow all adults offer and accept non-fraudulent (this qualifier demands deeper discussion about the proper legal standard of “fraudulent”) medical services, our hands are effectively tied in even beginning to address the issue.

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#103

Just here to promote yoga, which besides being a full body workout, grants the practitioner the ability to identify weak links through the flow of prana/inner breath.

> identify weak links through the flow of prana/inner breath I've reaped great flexibility and pain-relief benefits from yoga movements, but could you elaborate on this inner-breath part?

Happy to!

Deep intentional diaphragmatic breathing is developed through a sub-practice of yoga known as pranayama. We know now through experiment that this practice can calm the mind, destress the practitioner, and oxygenate the blood.Pranayama is said to elongate and clarify the breath.

Symptoms of underdeveloped breath include a scattered mind, trembling of the extremities, and shallow or ragged breathing. See as a primer clavicle breathing [0] vs diaphragmatic breathing [1].

You may find that deep breathing requires a specific orientation of the body. Yoga postures are in part designed to facilitate deep breathing. You may observe that your body automatically adjusts when attempting deep breaths. These adjustments _tend_ to be the same movements that encourage good posture and correct imbalances.

With much practice it becomes clear that the body is deeply and mysteriously connected to itself and to the breath in non-obvious ways. So flexing your foot or rotating your ankle may have a direct effect on the breath. Releasing the soft palette or raising the eyebrows may align the lower back. It's along these lines of connectivity that prana flows. Yoga is the process of removing the internal blockages that allow this perception, and this internal chain-reaction-like connectivity.

Turns out that deep breathing more or less requires good posture. You can fix your posture via deep breathing, and you can fix your breathing through correct posture. If you have a handle on one, you have a handle on the other.

When the breath does not flow easily, you will learn to identify the error of posture causing the blockage, and will through asana practice have the awareness and strength to correct it yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shallow_breathing [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragmatic_breathing

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#104

The site recommends crunches and leg extensions... crunches are not a great exercise for functional ab muscles, and leg extensions are generally verboten due to stress on the knees from the open chain loading. It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've…

The post is specifically on correcting weaknesses. Leg extensions verboten? That's a blatantly wrong statement because you're using it _absolutely_. Maybe for max loading, but nobody is recommending 1rm leg extensions. Specifically here it's being used to strengthen the VMO, so it would be in a moderate loading range. Without looking it up, can you think of another direct way to improve patellar tracking issues due t…

I think a valid definition of functional would be 'common in everyday life', and 'powerlifter trying to max his/her squat' does not qualify as a common everyday movement.

Parent might be referring to the assertion that the abs' main role is to prevent torso flexion (as opposed to cause it), which makes something like a Paloff press a more 'functional' movement.

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#105

The site recommends crunches and leg extensions... crunches are not a great exercise for functional ab muscles, and leg extensions are generally verboten due to stress on the knees from the open chain loading. It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've…

The post is specifically on correcting weaknesses. Leg extensions verboten? That's a blatantly wrong statement because you're using it _absolutely_. Maybe for max loading, but nobody is recommending 1rm leg extensions. Specifically here it's being used to strengthen the VMO, so it would be in a moderate loading range. Without looking it up, can you think of another direct way to improve patellar tracking issues due t…

Uh, sure. Do leg extensions if you want. Generally they're frowned upon but like everything in exercise science there is some debate and shifting of opinions. Sort of like the notion that weak VMOs are the source of patellar pain and that targeting them leads to positive outcomes.

You sound like you want an argument. I'm not interested. I am proud to say I am a relative newcomer to proper strength training. I can say that your arguments do not agree with anything I've come across yet, but hey, if it works for you, go for it.

Crunches are overemphasized and should take a back seat to exercises which train your real core muscles. Most people don't need them. They need a stronger posterior chain, obliques(and all the little core muscles), back extensions and training on proper breathing.

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#106

The site recommends crunches and leg extensions... crunches are not a great exercise for functional ab muscles, and leg extensions are generally verboten due to stress on the knees from the open chain loading. It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've…

The post is specifically on correcting weaknesses. Leg extensions verboten? That's a blatantly wrong statement because you're using it _absolutely_. Maybe for max loading, but nobody is recommending 1rm leg extensions. Specifically here it's being used to strengthen the VMO, so it would be in a moderate loading range. Without looking it up, can you think of another direct way to improve patellar tracking issues due t…

Leg extensions verboten? That's a blatantly wrong statement because you're using it _absolutely_.

You are wrong. It puts undue stress on the knees, even with low loads. I've had 3 knee operations (on one knee!) so I've been through a lot of PT. Open-loop exercises should just be avoided. Their closed-loop counterparts are better/just as good.

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#107

The site recommends crunches and leg extensions... crunches are not a great exercise for functional ab muscles, and leg extensions are generally verboten due to stress on the knees from the open chain loading. It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've…

> Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength I like this gist of his program, but as someone who did it years ago, there's a few things I'd change. First, remove cleans, and add barbell rows. Lots of people make this adjustment. I don't find the exercise to be beginner friendly. Second, deadlifts will be there own focused day almost immediately. Outside of one's probably first month, doing squats + bench + deadlift is nearly…

I'm a big fan of HN and happy to have a reason to create an account and comment after all of these years. I thoroughly enjoy the intelligent conversation here.

As a Starting Strength Coach (there are around 130 of us), I I can confirm that a few of the comments accurately sum up the objections (rather misunderstandings) of the program that H1Supreme highlighted.

The powerclean is an important part of the novice program to build explosive power - the ability to display strength, quickly. It can be substituted by another lift, or a light deadlift day, if the trainee's injury status or age make it an unwise cost/benefit equation. But this is considered a trade-off and isn't ideal.

Yes, the powerclean is technical. So is the squat. And the press. And the bench, to a much lesser degree. Which segues into the issue mentioned in the second point. Elbow pain in the squat. As accurately described by "yepguy," this is indeed a technical error. Here's how to fix it: https://startingstrength.com/training/preventing-elbow-pain-...

A few other thoughts: pwthornton, kettle-bell cleans and snatches are not a substitute for barbell cleans and snatches. What we're chasing is adequate training stress to facilitate an adaptation. One of the primary drivers of that stress is load - weight on the bar. Kettle-bells are too light (comparatively) to create meaningful enough stress to facilitate the stress, recovery, adaptation cycle in the context of training (goal oriented exercise). More reading on the topic: https://startingstrength.com/article/training_vs_exercise

anarchodev, Rippetoe and Starting Strength are more interested in getting regular, everyday people strong than high school football players. Yes, it's a great way for getting young men big and strong (I gained 65lbs), but it's also a way to improve quality of life for octogenarians, for example. The low-bar squat is in the program versus the high bar squat because it uses more muscle mass, which means more weight on the bar can be used. Weight on the bar is the primary consideration in strength training - more of it is what's needed to get stronger. Here is a piece that analyzes the squat in detail: https://startingstrength.com/article/analysis_of_the_squat

ubercore and DataWorker, for the purposes of strength training - low bar works better. It can be applied to any body type. Shorter torso = more horizontal back angle at the bottom of the squat, and vice versa. Goal is to load the hips, which are a more robust joint than the knees and are surrounded by more muscle mass. Low-bar is not one-size-fits-all, its a model for the squat that can be applied to nearly anyone, with rare exception.

michaelgrafl the nature of goblet squats and front squats require a sub-maximal load when compared to the low bar back squat. They may be suitable for an exercise program, but they are not suitable for an efficient strength training program, and most certainly not for a novice. See comment above about training stress.

I have a ton of respect for this community and would love to interact with you guys. Let me know if I can be helpful in any way.

Best, Ray Gillenwater

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#108
post #97
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good Advice; here's a bit more detail. Muscles respond to training input much faster than tendons (which attach muscles to the bones) and ligaments (which attach bones to other bones), roughly on a scale of 6 weeks vs 6 months. This is because the muscles have a vastly greater blood supply and connective tendons & ligaments have very limited blood supply. So, it is especially critical for people who are new to weight…

Good comment on type of pain. It’s important to realize that there is going to be some discomfort. Another thing is that the more a person lifts the less sore they get. The most sore I get now is when I come back from a 1-2 week vacation. My strength is always great, but that DOMS is rough.

Indeed -- those first workouts after an idle period - ouch!

The other thing to notice about pain and muscles vs joints (tendons & ligaments), is that you get good feedback from the muscles about how hard you are pushing -- the tiredness & burn -- so you can tell how you are doing. you need to go into that zone to really stimulate the muscle (but not so much or for so long that you break it down).

In contrast, tendons 7 ligaments give very little feedback until they are already damaged, sprained, pulled, etc. The first you hear about it is when you've gone too far.

That's why you need to be intelligent about loading them up when starting to work toward significant increases in previous strength!

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#109

The site recommends crunches and leg extensions... crunches are not a great exercise for functional ab muscles, and leg extensions are generally verboten due to stress on the knees from the open chain loading. It's good to be thinking of this stuff though. I highly recommend Athlean-X(his free youtube videos, can't say anything about his programs) and Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength program. Between these two, I've…

> Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength I like this gist of his program, but as someone who did it years ago, there's a few things I'd change. First, remove cleans, and add barbell rows. Lots of people make this adjustment. I don't find the exercise to be beginner friendly. Second, deadlifts will be there own focused day almost immediately. Outside of one's probably first month, doing squats + bench + deadlift is nearly…

I would also find a replacement for deadlifts too. As great as they are, it's fairly difficult to find a place that would accept them. Most gyms don't like them because they create a lot of noise and possible structural damage if the weightlifting equipment is not on the ground floor.

Re: Common Muscular Weaknesses

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength I like this gist of his program, but as someone who did it years ago, there's a few things I'd change. First, remove cleans, and add barbell rows. Lots of people make this adjustment. I don't find the exercise to be beginner friendly. Second, deadlifts will be there own focused day almost immediately. Outside of one's probably first month, doing squats + bench + deadlift is nearly…

The squat style has a lot to do with body types I think. His squat style completely cleared up lower back and hip pains I was having with high-bar. I think people should try both and see where their bodies are most comfortable.

I agree. I have encouraged several people with squatting problems to squat low bar and it sorted out there issues very quickly.
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