British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend • Hacker News Board

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#111

Post by zaarn » Wed, May 22, 2019, 12:57 PM UTC

foldingmoney wrote: post #104

zaarn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe isn't really a monoculture or a set of monocultures either. Over it's entire history, cultures have mixed and seperated all the time. I don't think the "melting pot of cultures" is any different here than in the US other than the US has less history with it.

It's different because in Europe you have people whose ancestors have lived in the same village for hundreds or thousands of years. They walk the land where their language was invented. Maybe their ancestors aren't really as pure as they think, but it's still fundamentally different from a country where everyone is an immigrant within the last few generations.

People didn't really stay in the same village all the time, there is plenty of mixing going on in history. Languages have moved as well, the german-french border can write you a long essay about that.

Considering the current political climate in the US, the difference isn't that large...

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#112

Post by Aromasin » Wed, May 22, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

burfog wrote: post #78

Aromasin wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree if this were most other countries - but the man was British. The freedoms we get here, disregarding gun and drug law, are the same in my eyes. The only reasons I'd be able to think of moving there would be if I was keen on a big city life that doesn't == London, if I was looking to work for a FAANG company, or as in the case of the article, for a girlfriend. I feel much more free travelling and living in ma…

In your country, a guy got in trouble with the law for making a comedy video with a little dog saluting Hitler. You literally can't take a joke. Reporting on court proceedings can get you arrested. Rude comments made on the internet, not even involving actionable threats, can get you arrested. Orwell was British, but "Freedom is slavery" was supposed to be fiction. It was not written as an instruction manual. You've…

The other commenters covered the first point. With regards to your 'reporting on court proceedings' comment, you could only be talking about Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (also known as Tommy Robinson to make himself more palatable to a certain demographic), as he's the only notorious one in recent memory that has been charge with this.

This law is fantastic in my eyes. Contempt of court laws are designed to protect the rule of law, ensure fair trials - and avoid trial by media.

Contempt can be committed by a broad range of people and organisations including the press, jurors, and - as we have learned in recent years - social media users.

He was asked multiple times to stop recording, over the course of the day. He even went as far as filming all the way to the court room. Don't get me wrong, the defendants were scum in this case, but that's for a court to decide. It sets an awful precedent if court trials start to become media frenzies like that of the US. Yaxley-Lennon is a bigot and if they didn't charge him on this law I'm sure he'd get arrested for assaulting someone soon enough, like he'd already done 12 months in prison for previously.

You're coming in very righteous, so here's something I find quite entertaining - "Reporter Zachary Siegel held in contempt of court and arrested after recording trial" Oct 2018 - https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/reporter-zachar...

I might suggest that condemning British freedom of press looks questionable from a resident of a country that has a precarious situation at the moment with their press: https://pressfreedomtracker.us/arrest-criminal-charge/

With regards to your final comment, I agree that confiscating knives is extreme. But frankly, our gun laws have been excellent at stopping gun crime and mass shootings - the issue is that the government has extrapolated this to the nth degree and wants to do this for knives now too. It's a symptom of poverty in primarily the city residential areas, and the government wants to appear to be doing something about it. I don't agree it's the best way, but it's a way. It's selectively enforced, and getting charge will result in maybe some community service or a fine - a stint in prison for repeat offenders or those already with numerous misdemeanours; it's certainly no modern dystopia where people are getting gunned down in the street with their hands above their heads or getting beaten to death while pinned to the ground.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#113

Post by raverbashing » Wed, May 22, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #44

jopsen wrote: post #8

Because most illegal immigrants are British, lol :) Being an illegal immigrant in the US is extremely unattractive -- decent jobs require paperwork.

You know, you will be surprised that the charts of biggest illegal immigrant nationalities worldwide is topped by Swiss citizens. Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere

> Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere

[Citation needed]

Just an example, it is assumed the US has around 11Mi undocumented migrants (rough number). Switzerland does not even have that many people.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#114

Post by baybal2 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #113

baybal2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, you will be surprised that the charts of biggest illegal immigrant nationalities worldwide is topped by Swiss citizens. Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere

> Developed countries' citizens consistently outmatch people from undeveloped countries when in comes to immigration crimes almost everywhere [Citation needed] Just an example, it is assumed the US has around 11Mi undocumented migrants (rough number). Switzerland does not even have that many people.

Almost always, but not everywhere. For US, yes, other American nationals make ~50% of their illegal immigrants, and that's a phenomenon on its own.

But take a bigger sample. Swiss were biggest offenders in Hongkong, Macau, and dozen other tropical vacation destinations.

Few years ago, Singapore's biggest offenders after Malaysians happened to be US citizens.

India, complicated story... but if you not count Bangladesh citizens, and stateless, I think almost all of OECD members will get to the chart

Vietnam, heard that they struggle with US citizens in recent years as well, though mostly Vietnamese Americans

African countries, a known story - tourist overstayers

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#115

Post by n4r9 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

no1youknowz wrote: post #106

n4r9 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in London, have visited the US and have friends that live there. Almost all of these are wrong or simply things I don't value. The only one I don't dispute is the likelihood of success in business. To be fair I'd rather take the healthcare (and slightly more sane political environment). - Better TV. Who watches normal TV as opposed to Netflix? - Much Better Food. Dispute this. US food standards are demonstrabl…

I've lived in London for 10 years too. Visiting the US does not mean living in it... - Netflix, in the UK due to licensing is a poorer subset of content. - There are much better choices of food options available in the US compared to the UK. - No, literally everywhere. I know many developers [around the US] who know either just PHP or Node and have $100k positions. Try living outside of London, you'd be lucky just to…

I'll grant you that I'm comparing living in London to living in the US generally, which is a little unfair. I've also lived in Nottingham (also great public transport) and Cambridge (pretty poor public transport) and have managed most of the time without needing to drive. My point is more that "bigger cars" is not inherently a valuable prospect compared to "good public transport". After a few online searches the average PHP salary in London is supposedly £55-60k, which is comparable to the supposed $70-80k average for the US. As another commenter mentioned, weapon-based murders are far lower in the UK than the US. I grant you we don't have legislation to protect hate speech, but we do have the right to silence when being questioned by police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_an... .

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#116

Post by n4r9 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

golergka wrote: post #109

n4r9 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know someone that spent several weeks walking and hitch-hiking around Georgia. Everywhere he went, the locals welcomed him in, gave him a place to stay and invited him to dinners full of local food, local wine and raucous toasting. His single bad experience was in a hostel with another foreigner who turned out to be a racist arsehole.

As I answered to another reply, you would also get a much better reception as a foreigner than as a local. Especially if you're tourist with money. Not because they make a cynical decision to appear hospitable, they're sincere in their sympathy to you: you're not a threat or a competitor to them, unlike another local.

Fine, but this whole thread is about why someone would move from the UK to the US.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#117

Post by vinni2 » Wed, May 22, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC

Why was he detained and his messages checked in the first place? The immigration officer must have had some suspicion even without the text messages.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#118

Post by burfog » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

Aromasin wrote: post #112

burfog wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your country, a guy got in trouble with the law for making a comedy video with a little dog saluting Hitler. You literally can't take a joke. Reporting on court proceedings can get you arrested. Rude comments made on the internet, not even involving actionable threats, can get you arrested. Orwell was British, but "Freedom is slavery" was supposed to be fiction. It was not written as an instruction manual. You've…

The other commenters covered the first point. With regards to your 'reporting on court proceedings' comment, you could only be talking about Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (also known as Tommy Robinson to make himself more palatable to a certain demographic), as he's the only notorious one in recent memory that has been charge with this. This law is fantastic in my eyes. Contempt of court laws are designed to protect the rule…

It was OK for Zachary Siegel to get video of the trial, and OK for him to report on the trial. There was in fact video being made available to him, via the media pool. His violation was of a decorum order -- essentially, being rude and making a scene. We don't generally prohibit reporting on a trial. Judges sometimes don't wish to perform on video, so that can be blocked, but reporting from outside the courtroom is always OK.

As I understand it, your situation is more like a general-purpose gag order on the entire trial. Part of ensuring fair trials is making them public. In secrecy, all sorts of bad things happen. Public trials are very much on purpose. Secret trials bring to mind the USSR, North Korea, and similar.

We don't have people getting gunned down in the street with their hands above their heads either. I think you refer to the August 9, 2014 shooting of Michael Brown. Evidence shows he was doing nothing of the sort. Instead, he was trying to grab the cop's gun. His fingerprints were inside the vehicle and evidence from his body shows that the gun was fired from very short range. Yeah, we do have criminals, I admit that, and it sucks.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#119

Post by burfog » Wed, May 22, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #83

burfog wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your country, a guy got in trouble with the law for making a comedy video with a little dog saluting Hitler. You literally can't take a joke. Reporting on court proceedings can get you arrested. Rude comments made on the internet, not even involving actionable threats, can get you arrested. Orwell was British, but "Freedom is slavery" was supposed to be fiction. It was not written as an instruction manual. You've…

> Reporting on court proceedings can get you arrested. No, interfering with trials will get you arrested. > a guy got in trouble with the law for making a comedy video with a little dog saluting Hitler. It wasn't the Nazi salutes that caused the trouble, it was broadcasting the repeated use of the phrase "gas the jews". He tried to use the "it was just a prank bro" defence in court, and they rejected it because i) to…

The point is that the US has more freedom. His "it was just a prank bro" defense wouldn't even be needed. Because the US has freedom, people can make videos like that all they want. It doesn't matter if there is a girlfriend to show. It doesn't matter if you happen to think "gas the Jews" is or isn't funny.

Well, you'd best never have a thought that offends anybody ever in your rapidly-changing culture. Someday that could be you going to prison for your 2019-era wrongthink.

Re: British man banned from US because of text to American girlfriend

#120

Post by burfog » Wed, May 22, 2019, 8:06 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #86

hvidgaard wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from the right to bear arms, what is different? Many people even see that as a benefit to the UK.

You can "bear arms" here in the UK if you like. Just go down to the Post Office and buy a license. I'm not even joking - I live in a rural area and know multiple people with shotgun licenses. You'll be subjected to a criminal background check of course.

That is only so you can shoot targets and vermin. You are not permitted to kill a person who intrudes into your home.

Also, what about a pistol, carried on your person as you go about your day? Here in the US it is generally possible to do that. (variation by state: concealed carry may need a license, open carry may need a license, some states prohibit using it unless you can't retreat, etc.)