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Kite Plans

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Re: Kite Plans

#41
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve a feeling that upwind performance would be lackluster. A modern Bermuda rig can be highly performant at all points of sail in a variety of conditions.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the Bermuda rig? Curious.

Bermuda rigging:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_rig

If you're not familiar with sailing rigs, you probably don't even notice it as anything other than, "that's what most modern sailboats look like." This is precisely because it is a extremely efficient at sailing upwind. And their fastest speeds are roughly doing perpendicular to the wind.

Boats like you see in pirate movies and such have what is called square rig. These boats will sail their fastest downwind, but struggle much more in other directions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_rig

EDIT: So I just realized that the Wikipedia article does not have a great explanation on the actual physics here. I'll do my best, though this is all subject to my (mis)understanding.

Obviously, just putting a sail on a raft with no other modifications will just push your raft downwind. You have some ability to control direction with the rudder, but that's it. To sail perpendicular, you need to start leveraging other forces. The main ones are lift force from the sail shape, and drag from the centerboard. [0]

Bermuda rigging uses a triangular sail that is rigged along the axis of travel. (Compare to square rig, where the sails are perpendicular to the axis of travel.) The sail has enough slack that, as wind fills it, it curves. The sails then begins acting as a vertically-oriented wing, using the airflow over the surface to generate lift -- though, in this case, the lift pushes the sailboat sideways.

So you have the wind attempting to push your boat sideways... That is not helpful for moving forward. Enter the centerboard, which resists this push by simply increasing the surface area of the boat under the water. In order to move sideways, the water has to be moved. So you have two opposing sideways forces, and the result is a bit like pushing a wedge -- the boat moves forward.

Also of interest in the physics is speed. So a boat sailing downwind can never go faster than some fraction of the wind speed. Because if it was, the apparent wind would either be zero or a headwind. However, a boat moving perpendicular or upwind can actually move faster than wind speed, because it is utilizing more forces than just the raw wind. And, in fact, the faster a boat moves upwind, the faster the apparent wind is, moving it yet faster.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centreboard

Really small boats might get away without one. For example, a Hobie Cat (around 16 feet) is using a combination of its hull and a large rudder surface to achieve the same effects.

Re: Kite Plans

#42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve a feeling that upwind performance would be lackluster. A modern Bermuda rig can be highly performant at all points of sail in a variety of conditions.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the Bermuda rig? Curious.

"The rig consists of a triangular sail set aft of the mast with its head raised to the top of the mast; its luff runs down the mast and is normally attached to it for its entire length; its tack is attached at the base of the mast; its foot (in modern versions of the rig) controlled by a boom; and its clew attached to the aft end of the boom, which is controlled by its sheet."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_rig

Re: Kite Plans

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stability of that kind of platform is a severely limiting factor. The 3-axis gimbal had a lot to do with making aerial photography a thing as much as the drone itself. I was part of a group where we launched a helium balloon to ~90,000' with 2 GoPros attached. The footage is so unstable in much the same way that I imagine being attached to a kite would be. The weight of the camera is at the end of a length of "st…

I also had a lot of fun KAPing before drones. Stabilization was handled fairly easy with a Picavet (or Pendulum) suspension system. Neat and low tech. More details here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_aerial_photography#Pica...

That looks interesting for other purposes I'd like to try. I love builds that let gravity do the work.

I have been wanting to try it again using a swivel in the line to allow the balloon to spin freely, but then use a tail/fin type of attachment to keep the rig oriented. It seems like anything would have to make it better.

Re: Kite Plans

#44
post #35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that there are a variety of advantages: the kite flies in cleaner air; the thrust from the kite is applied at one point, with less heeling moment than from a sail; the design of the boat is not constrained by the structural requirement of a mast IIRC A kite powered boat called Jacobs Ladder held various sailing speed records at one point

I’ve a feeling that upwind performance would be lackluster. A modern Bermuda rig can be highly performant at all points of sail in a variety of conditions.

A racing surfkite like this one [1] has no problem going upwind really fast.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltDLsumdXLA

Re: Kite Plans

#45
post #6

Due to the HN hug-of-death: https://web.archive.org/web/20190522135029/http://www.kitepl...

What's the deal with the sketchy "PDF viewer" that they tried to force Chrome users to install? This is an example where a site actually worked better in Firefox and Edge.

Re: Kite Plans

#46
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. What would be the advantages of that over an ordinary sailboat?

My understanding is that there are a variety of advantages: the kite flies in cleaner air; the thrust from the kite is applied at one point, with less heeling moment than from a sail; the design of the boat is not constrained by the structural requirement of a mast IIRC A kite powered boat called Jacobs Ladder held various sailing speed records at one point

There was a company out of San Francisco some years back that built several versions of an auto-foiling kite powered trimaran. It looked really cool.

https://youtu.be/1QzT_PBLSXo

Re: Kite Plans

#47
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the limiting factor was the lack of inexpensive cameras, not the lack of drones. There was only a short window of time between when remotely controllable lightweight cameras became cheap enough for people to not worry about crashing them into rocks, on the one hand, and when drones became widely available, on the other.

Not that narrow. I remember in the late 80's / early 90's Estes had a model rocket that would pop a picture (onto film) from the nosecone when the chute charge went off. I have no idea what the quality was like (my parents refused to buy me one).

I spent a bunch of allowance money on one of those. It used 110 film cartridges, and had a pretty cheap plastic lens. Quality wasn't really that good (and wasn't helped by the cheap film I had to use), but it didn't matter to a 10 year old -- I had a rocket that took pictures!

Re: Kite Plans

#49
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve a feeling that upwind performance would be lackluster. A modern Bermuda rig can be highly performant at all points of sail in a variety of conditions.

A racing surfkite like this one [1] has no problem going upwind really fast. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltDLsumdXLA

I understand how sailing upwind works with a bermuda rig, but how do you do that with a kite, aerodynamically speaking?

Re: Kite Plans

#50
post #45
post #6

Due to the HN hug-of-death: https://web.archive.org/web/20190522135029/http://www.kitepl...

What's the deal with the sketchy "PDF viewer" that they tried to force Chrome users to install? This is an example where a site actually worked better in Firefox and Edge.

Chrome, Firefox and Edge all come with PDF viewers by default. You do not need to install anything.

Rule of the internet: don't install things that you didn't ask for.

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