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ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

bbc.com

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Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#201

Post by manacit »

ac29 wrote: post #196
mirimir wrote: post #184

> He said it would greatly affect the firm's ability to develop its own chips, many of which are currently built with ARM’s underlying technology, for which it pays a licence. Maybe China could just change its laws to void ARM's patents. Then Huawei wouldn't need to worry about licensing. Extreme, I know. But China will very likely, at some point, need to counter this somehow. Edit: I wonder if China could afford a t…

> I wonder if China could afford a trade boycott against the US. Also, doesn't it own tons of US bonds? What if it had a fire sale on them? How would that affect the US? Most people overestimate this. Of the $22T US Debt, only $6T is held by all foreign accounts combined, $1T of which is held by China. The majority of US Debt is held domestically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_St...

Indeed, the bond market is liquid and deep. If China wanted to dump the Treasuries they own, the US could easily opt to buy them back to prop the price up as a method of last resort, which would likely not have a huge impact.

It would probably hurt them in the long term if anything - weakening the dollar makes their export-driven economy more expensive, ultimately stifling growth.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#202

Post by gamblor956 »

sanxiyn wrote: post #126
greatpatton wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah like US rules the world and US laws should apply to everyone! Then don't be surprised if the rest of the world prefer Chinese because as of today the last imperialistic power is the USA. By the way nobody outside of the US voted for your smart president.

US laws should not apply to everyone, but in practice they do, sort of. The most prominent example is internet services censoring nipples due to US stupidity.

Nobody censored nipples because of US laws. US laws allow nipples on the internet, and the US is one of the largest sources of such images...

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#203

Post by gamblor956 »

greatpatton wrote: post #110
simonh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is subject to the ban, it would be a pretty bold move to ignore it and carry on in violation of US law. Not an easy position to be in.

Yeah like US rules the world and US laws should apply to everyone! Then don't be surprised if the rest of the world prefer Chinese because as of today the last imperialistic power is the USA. By the way nobody outside of the US voted for your smart president.

I really hoped that nobody outside of the US (except for US citizens) voted for our president because that would have been illegal, as voting in US presidential elections in limited to US citizens.

Immigrants (in the US) are not allowed to vote in presidential elections either...

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#204

Post by 86carr »

yogthos wrote: post #4

This could be a really great thing in the long run. I'm really hoping this will promote open hardware and software in the future. Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech, since they're under so much scrutiny that's the best way to show they're being above board. Using open software and hardware would also show that same thing couldn't happen with their stack in the future. If they're smart, they'll…

Said like someone who never had anything worth stealing.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#205

Post by muyuu »

greatpatton wrote: post #110
simonh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is subject to the ban, it would be a pretty bold move to ignore it and carry on in violation of US law. Not an easy position to be in.

Yeah like US rules the world and US laws should apply to everyone! Then don't be surprised if the rest of the world prefer Chinese because as of today the last imperialistic power is the USA. By the way nobody outside of the US voted for your smart president.

Well, as Patton knew, the rules are set by power first and negotiation second. Negotiation failed, power is kicking in.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#206

Post by jdietrich »

cbsks wrote: post #189
eropple wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or all the knowledge happily taken and used from Mendelesque cruel inhuman 'research' done in concentration camps. AFAIK no researcher was morally above and simply refused to work with those data. So I've had cause to research this one in the past. "All the knowledge"--most of the Nazi concentration camp research was absolute garbage . Turns out junk-science sadists create junk-science results and it is generally a…

>today, the use of any of this data must be explicitly detailed Do you have any examples of papers which source such data? I'm curious to read the justification of it.

The most common example is the Dachau hypothermia experiments.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#207

Post by mtw »

zaphar wrote: post #6
yogthos wrote: post #4

This could be a really great thing in the long run. I'm really hoping this will promote open hardware and software in the future. Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech, since they're under so much scrutiny that's the best way to show they're being above board. Using open software and hardware would also show that same thing couldn't happen with their stack in the future. If they're smart, they'll…

There is one critical difference between America and China here. American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP. Whatever you may think of the wisdom of a trade war, no one can really argue that China hasn't given the US all the ammunition it needed to give political cover to engaged in one.

There is no wholesale theft. Theft is getting something against their will or them not knowing.

China offered foreign corporations to open factories in China, under the condition that's it's done with a local partner. Western companies put IP, funds and many other assets in the joint venture, willingly.

This is the same as American corporations selling tanks and planes to Israel. Now look right now and you have Israeli companies producing latest-gen weapons, with a large portion integrating American design and IP. Where is the outrage?

If you are thinking about groups of hackers hacking into networks and stealing plans and designs, we're more at the stage of McCarthyism hysteria or anti-japanese sentiments in the 80-90s. So far, what's more obvious is state-sponsored Russian hackers, and a bit behind Israeli hackers.

Now at the individual level or at corporation level, it is true there are cases of theft. For example, there are blatant copies of the Mercedes G-Wagon, many other cars and products. Chinese will get a copy of your product and will find a way to sell you a copy for 1/3rd the price. There is no wholesale state sponsored theft, and a large percentage of Chinese companies actually follow the law.

I think people must be very careful currently. You're just being a mouthpiece for Steve Bannon and Trump by writing "wholesale state sponsored theft"

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#208

Post by mirimir »

manacit wrote: post #201
ac29 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if China could afford a trade boycott against the US. Also, doesn't it own tons of US bonds? What if it had a fire sale on them? How would that affect the US? Most people overestimate this. Of the $22T US Debt, only $6T is held by all foreign accounts combined, $1T of which is held by China. The majority of US Debt is held domestically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_St...

Indeed, the bond market is liquid and deep. If China wanted to dump the Treasuries they own, the US could easily opt to buy them back to prop the price up as a method of last resort, which would likely not have a huge impact. It would probably hurt them in the long term if anything - weakening the dollar makes their export-driven economy more expensive, ultimately stifling growth.

OK, that's good news.

But hey, I live in the US. Most everything in big-box stores is made in China. I can't quite imagine how China could just cut off exports to the US. But maybe they have a slush fund. And I certainly can't imagine how the US could function without stuff from China. Who could fill the gap?

I was in the US during the 70s oil boycott. Gas lines. Oil too expensive to stay warm in the winter. It sucked.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#209

Post by criddell »

yogthos wrote: post #170
criddell wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were never just another phone company. Their ties to the Chinese government were never a secret. If the US government partnered with a US company founded by former Defense Department people to build a product called Freedom Fone using mostly open source software, would you trust it?

A lot of open source American tech has roots in NSA and other agencies. Signal and Tor are good examples, yet people seem to trust them.

The operations of a company with size and might of Huawei in China is nothing like the operations of big European or American companies. The Chinese government is very involved. They have offices in the company. Do you think Signal has a government representative on site all the time?

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#210

Post by 86carr »

molteanu wrote: post #14
zaphar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one critical difference between America and China here. American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP. Whatever you may think of the wisdom of a trade war, no one can really argue that China hasn't given the US all the ammunition it needed to give political cover to engaged in one.

When you're advanced enough, there is no need for you do to IP. Maybe the risk is not worth it or there is nothing to gain from it. It's the same argument with the open markets. When you're already a developed economy, open markets benefit you since you have the best products, your production facilities are in place and you can offer both quantity, quality and reasonable prices. But when you are a developing nation,…

That is a terrible article to base an argument on. You come off more as anti-american than open minded.
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