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Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

nytimes.com

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Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#241

Post by JohnFen »

zaroth wrote: post #221
JohnFen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> switch off AutoPilot data collection Is that the only data collection a Tesla engages in? > You can also email Tesla and tell them you want to go dark in which case they shutdown the LTE connection entirely. But how can I be sure that they've done so? And how can I be sure they wouldn't turn it back on at some point in the future? > of course online traffic aware maps, and streaming radio won’t work. That is actual…

If you don’t believe them when they tell you it’s shut off, and you don’t believe the UI when it tells you it’s disconnected, then I suppose you can just unplug the antenna?

If, for some reason, I have to own a car that is capable of sending data wirelessly, this is exactly what I would do.

I don't see that needing to happen, though. I'm old enough that I can reasonably expect that older used cars will be available to me for the rest of my life. I don't see myself buying a new car at any point, due to these issues.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#242

Post by JohnFen »

bwb wrote: post #190
lutorm wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the POV that if I buy the device, I decide what the device does? This is a fundamental property right. You may argue that the data created isn't "mine", but I would argue that it is absolutely my data if it is created by a device I own. The fact that someone else manufactured the device doesn't give them some sort of retained ownership once they sell it to me.

Yep, that is def an option for you to believe, I just am not agreeing with that POV :) I do object to thinking it has precedent. This is a new situation that is going to get bigger with iot.

> This is a new situation that is going to get bigger with iot.

This issue is precisely why I won't be buying any IoT device that requires the use of a third-party server, which currently means any commercial IoT devices.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#243

Post by webninja »

While working in technology design & specs at Toyota HQ, I was told that one day, it might, in theory, be able to make cars free just funded by all the data it generates from you. Whether that will ever pan out is speculative but that’s a startling concept nevertheless.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#244

Post by zaroth »

JohnFen wrote: post #241
zaroth wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t believe them when they tell you it’s shut off, and you don’t believe the UI when it tells you it’s disconnected, then I suppose you can just unplug the antenna?

If, for some reason, I have to own a car that is capable of sending data wirelessly, this is exactly what I would do. I don't see that needing to happen, though. I'm old enough that I can reasonably expect that older used cars will be available to me for the rest of my life. I don't see myself buying a new car at any point, due to these issues.

I don’t know how old you are, but I suspect ICE vehicles will be banned or heavily taxed/tolled in an increasing number of locations over the next 20 years.

I’d think disabling the wireless is a minor inconvenience to experience the joy of an EV.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#245

Post by JohnFen »

OrgNet wrote: post #238
JohnFen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are instructions for how to disable the comms antenna for a lot of cars out there.

Do you have any link by any chance?

I don't know of any one-stop shop for such instructions (they vary according to the make and model of the car). The last time I needed to learn this was a number of years ago, and I just searched the web for " disable antenna" or "disable telemetry cell".

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#246

Post by JohnFen »

zaroth wrote: post #244
JohnFen wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, for some reason, I have to own a car that is capable of sending data wirelessly, this is exactly what I would do. I don't see that needing to happen, though. I'm old enough that I can reasonably expect that older used cars will be available to me for the rest of my life. I don't see myself buying a new car at any point, due to these issues.

I don’t know how old you are, but I suspect ICE vehicles will be banned or heavily taxed/tolled in an increasing number of locations over the next 20 years. I’d think disabling the wireless is a minor inconvenience to experience the joy of an EV.

I'm in my mid-50s.

I have no special desire for an EV specifically (and yes, I have used them!) I don't have any problems with them, they're just no more or less attractive to me for being electric. I very much prefer not to own a car at all when I'm in a position where I can get away without one.

But as I said, if I had to own a modern car, I'd disable the antenna. But it's a whole lot easier to just buy a car that doesn't have that nonsense in the first place if that's possible.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#248

Post by brokenmachine »

JohnFen wrote: post #246
zaroth wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know how old you are, but I suspect ICE vehicles will be banned or heavily taxed/tolled in an increasing number of locations over the next 20 years. I’d think disabling the wireless is a minor inconvenience to experience the joy of an EV.

I'm in my mid-50s. I have no special desire for an EV specifically (and yes, I have used them!) I don't have any problems with them, they're just no more or less attractive to me for being electric. I very much prefer not to own a car at all when I'm in a position where I can get away without one. But as I said, if I had to own a modern car, I'd disable the antenna. But it's a whole lot easier to just buy a car that…

I agree with you but I fear we are in the minority, because Average Joe wants fast with shiny wheels, and is completely ignorant or complacent about some esoteric idea of a right to privacy.

Something something get what they deserve.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#249

Post by brokenmachine »

Silhouette wrote: post #81
the_snooze wrote: post #43

Something that bothers me is why are companies so casual about attaching fragile networked software to long-lived durable goods like cars? The manufacturer has no economic or legal incentive to keep that patched over the life of the hardware. This is the rotten shortsighted mindset of modern-day tech: all the benefit for the company, none of the responsibility.

Something that bothers me is why are companies so casual about attaching fragile networked software to long-lived durable goods like cars? The manufacturer has no economic or legal incentive to keep that patched over the life of the hardware. Indeed. See also: almost all new TVs are now "smart" TVs, almost all new phones are now "smart" phones, a high proportion of "smart home" and IoT devices simply stop working if…

My own little soapbox is that if you buy a product, it should always be possible for the consumer to return it to exactly the state it was at the time of purchase.

So no forced or unrevokable updates that ruin (or even change) things.

I have a TV that has on multiple times broken things with firmware updates, and there is no known way to downgrade. I'd name and shame the company but I'm sure that almost every manufacturer gets away with the same bullshit. Same with cellphone manufacturers.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#250

Post by brokenmachine »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #210
ghaff wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still trusting Apple to actually turn them off. I have zero reason to doubt Apple on this. However, I also have zero reason to think Alexa is transmitting even if it hasn't been woken up with the wake word.

We can't know everything for sure in this world, it's true. However, Apple has taken a stance on privacy, Amazon hasn't, and has made a name for itself in how it treats folks and where it prioritizes profit. Now, I don't think they have mics on all the time either, as it would be impractical. But rest assured they are vacuuming up every morsel of information they can for monetization reasons. And law enforcement has…

> And law enforcement has been banging on the door to get access. After the next tragedy they will get through.

Law enforcement wants access to Alexa devices? I don't doubt they do, but can you cite examples of them trying? What kind of tragedy are you alluding to?

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