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Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

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Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#61

Post by cookingrobot »

maxxxxx wrote: post #34
danschumann wrote: post #28

Can't we make solar powered ice makers on a huge scale and just re freeze it?

You understand that a refrigerator puts out heat so in the end it’s a zero sum game?

Not exactly a zero-sum game because the earth isn’t a closed system. We’re constantly getting heat energy from the sun and radiating it back out into space at an equal rate. The composition of the atmosphere (greenhouse gasses) decides what equilibrium temperature will be. So if we had big refrigerators refreezing the arctic (without creating greenhouse gasses), they would put a ton of heat into the air but it would radiate away into space just like any other heat captured by the sun, and wouldn’t really affect the earth’s average temperature.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#62

Post by beatpanda »

lazyjones wrote: post #55
foxyv wrote: post #16

If you are interested in seeing a map of sea level rises, the NOAA publishes a website with one. At 7 ft there are significant coastal differences. https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/

Here's a more complete picture for the case when all ice melts and sea levels rise by 60+ meters: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/waterworld.html (note: by a "skeptic") > Today the Earth has 148 million sq. km of land area, of which 16 million sq. km is covered by glaciers. A sea level rise of 66 meters would flood about 13 million sq. km of land outside Antarctica. Without polar ice, Antarctica and Green…

The amount of migration that has completely upended political systems in the United States and Europe since 2010 or so will be a historical footnote compared to the migration we will experience due to climate change. The United States elected a professional wrestling character to the Presidency because he promised to be cruel to immigrants. Forgive my pessimism but I do not think "we will be able to migrate affected people in time" barring a major transformation of our society.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#63

Post by coldpie »

sampo wrote: post #33
ridicter wrote: post #26

If you're interested in getting involved in addressing climate change, here are two options for citizens to get involved: 1) The Citizens Climate Climate Lobby has been around ten years, and it currently has a bill in Congress that has bipartisan (1 Republican) support: The Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act ( http://energyinnovationact.org/ ). With this plan, all the revenue from a carbon tax* is directly ret…

> Green New Deal Aren't they strongly anti-nuclear? Putting science behind ideology is not a very good position to take about climate change.

It's also important not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I agree that nuclear is a requirement to stemming climate change, but I still support the GND because it represents a lot of good steps in the right direction. We can always patch up the imperfect bits later.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#64

Post by kabdib »

danschumann wrote: post #28

Can't we make solar powered ice makers on a huge scale and just re freeze it?

I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation and was surprised how much ice a square meter of solar power can make in a day. But to scale ice making machinery to planetary capacity you'll probably need to use all the metal we've mined, ever.

With this kind of massive industrial effort, it's probably cheaper to build big towers and get rid of excess heat by pumping it up and radiating it into space off the night side of the planet. You don't need to make ice, you just need to reduce global temperatures. You could accomplish the same thing with a shield in space to reduce insolation.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#65

Post by [deleted] »

mythrwy wrote: post #29
lazyjones wrote: post #21

So how much was the actual global sea-level rise in the past 10 years and how does it relate to previous estimates?

Maybe something like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7139797.stm I don't doubt humans are affecting the climate. I do doubt that humans can extrapolate the effects of what they are doing out into the future very well.

[deleted]

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#66

Post by ilikehurdles »

war1025 wrote: post #37
swarnie_ wrote: post #6

When is the next US election due? We might need a new administration to get moving on this one. You know... Before we're all fucked.

The cynic in me has wondered the past couple days whether all this new climate change coverage is a full-court press by Democrats in anticipation of the next election. Seems to have become a hot topic in the news just within the past few weeks.

Climate change is constantly in the headlines because it’s constantly causing various newsworthy conditions and being actively studied. Some stories bubble up to the mainstream audience and some don’t, but that’s not much different with shootings or any other regularly occurring news event in the US. Attention on climate change has always ebbed and flowed.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#67

Post by lumberjack »

sampo wrote: post #33
ridicter wrote: post #26

If you're interested in getting involved in addressing climate change, here are two options for citizens to get involved: 1) The Citizens Climate Climate Lobby has been around ten years, and it currently has a bill in Congress that has bipartisan (1 Republican) support: The Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act ( http://energyinnovationact.org/ ). With this plan, all the revenue from a carbon tax* is directly ret…

> Green New Deal Aren't they strongly anti-nuclear? Putting science behind ideology is not a very good position to take about climate change.

There is really no "they". There are various not well defined groups pushing for some kind not well defined "Green New Deal". There are some who are anti-nuclear and some who aren't. The thing is, you can still use the momentum of GND to push for your preferred climate change mitigation action. You don't have to subscribe 100% to the ideology of someone else.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#68

Post by maxxxxx »

cookingrobot wrote: post #61
maxxxxx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that a refrigerator puts out heat so in the end it’s a zero sum game?

Not exactly a zero-sum game because the earth isn’t a closed system. We’re constantly getting heat energy from the sun and radiating it back out into space at an equal rate. The composition of the atmosphere (greenhouse gasses) decides what equilibrium temperature will be. So if we had big refrigerators refreezing the arctic (without creating greenhouse gasses), they would put a ton of heat into the air but it would…

By that thinking you could just cool down the air. No need to freeze the arctic.

Re: Ice sheet contributions to future sea-level rise from structured expert judgment

#70

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

beatpanda wrote: post #62
lazyjones wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a more complete picture for the case when all ice melts and sea levels rise by 60+ meters: http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/waterworld.html (note: by a "skeptic") > Today the Earth has 148 million sq. km of land area, of which 16 million sq. km is covered by glaciers. A sea level rise of 66 meters would flood about 13 million sq. km of land outside Antarctica. Without polar ice, Antarctica and Green…

The amount of migration that has completely upended political systems in the United States and Europe since 2010 or so will be a historical footnote compared to the migration we will experience due to climate change. The United States elected a professional wrestling character to the Presidency because he promised to be cruel to immigrants. Forgive my pessimism but I do not think "we will be able to migrate affected…

> United States elected a professional wrestling character to the Presidency because he promised to be cruel to immigrants

Seriously, if that is what you honestly think happened without hyperbole... I worry for 2020.

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