Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 256 posts

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#101

Post by sschueller »

molteanu wrote: post #14
zaphar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one critical difference between America and China here. American companies have for the most part not been engaging in wholesale state sponsored theft of Chinese IP. Whatever you may think of the wisdom of a trade war, no one can really argue that China hasn't given the US all the ammunition it needed to give political cover to engaged in one.

When you're advanced enough, there is no need for you do to IP. Maybe the risk is not worth it or there is nothing to gain from it. It's the same argument with the open markets. When you're already a developed economy, open markets benefit you since you have the best products, your production facilities are in place and you can offer both quantity, quality and reasonable prices. But when you are a developing nation,…

Also let's not forget about Operation Paperclip. You can toss the moral high ground out of the door.

"Operation Paperclip was a secret program of the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA) largely carried out by Special Agents of Army CIC, in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians, such as Wernher von Braun and his V-2 rocket team, were taken from Germany to America for U.S. government employment, primarily between 1945 and 1959. Many were former members, and some were former leaders, of the Nazi Party" [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#102

Post by aclsid »

patentatt wrote: post #43
yogthos wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to care about this in the long run, and it's pretty clear that China has already moved past US capabilities with tech like 5G. This will only spur more investment in domestic technology. China has a far better education system, a lot more people, and a government that's able to do long term planning. I expect them to leapfrog US within a decade or so.

That overlooks the long history and cultural norm of borrowing or copying to advance. Chinese culture does not place the same value on pioneering as the US. If China does become a tech leader it will have to shift those deeply rooted cultural forces first. That, and their government that is capable of long term planning is also incapable of tolerating diversity, dissent, and free thought. I do not think China will be…

You seem to forget that China has like 50+ minorities that are encouraged to rise up in society, with preferred employment in the regions they are from or better chance to get at top universities. That some Uyghur have been trying to create domestic terrorism and that the central government response is blunt that is true, but the same can be said of how a lot of members of the Muslim community are treated in the West, especially in places like Gitmo. As for pioneering, just by seeing what happened with digital payments, I think you are in for a surprise. The worst thing one can do in general is think that you are so superior that no other people can overcome you. China suffered greatly from having such delusions in the past and so will the US if they don't get any wiser.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#103

Post by [deleted] »

simion314 wrote: post #83
patentatt wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an IP lawyer who has been involved in several cases involving Chinese appropriation of trade secrets and/or patents ... it’s real. Smart companies don’t even try any more, just accept that if they do any business with any Chinese nationals, their secrets will be exfiltrated. And if you patent something, it will be used in China and there’s nothing you can do about it. It’s just an accepted cost of doing business t…

Can you give a good example similar to what you experienced? The issue is that we read daily about ridiculous patents.

[deleted]

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#104

Post by simion314 »

simonh wrote: post #86
craigsmansion wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. The most well-known and common form of "IP theft" is cheaply made Chinese knock-offs that are forgeries. That's trademark infringement. It's not that big of a problem. What is an actual problematic form of "IP theft" is China appropriating trade-secrets. The bulk of "IP theft" that is used to fuel the current war of words seems to be patent infringement. Patent infringement sounds problematic, but really…

A lot of this takes the form of a Western company contracting a Chinese manufacturer to make some goods for it. The company pays for research and development, specialist tooling and such. They contract the factory to make 10,000 widgets. They then find thousands of the exact same widgets on the market in China. The factory just makes more and sells them directly.

Is this illegal in China? If yes is there an example of someone trying to get justice for this?

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#105

Post by baybal2 »

deepaksurti wrote: post #30
smallstepforman wrote: post #13

ARM management are shooting themseves in the head here, this will divert Huawei funds to Risc-V instead. Time to dump ARM shares.

ARM is no longer publicly listed, it is a private subsidiary of Soft Bank group. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm_Holdings

Well, you can still find a PE broker yourself

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#106

Post by alexeiz »

thommark wrote: post #97
yogthos wrote: post #4

This could be a really great thing in the long run. I'm really hoping this will promote open hardware and software in the future. Huawei is most likely to start relying on open source tech, since they're under so much scrutiny that's the best way to show they're being above board. Using open software and hardware would also show that same thing couldn't happen with their stack in the future. If they're smart, they'll…

I don't think EU will trust Huawei at all. Recently my country Netherlands has found backdoors in Huawei equipments https://www.reuters.com/article/us-netherlands-huawei-tech/d... . and the biggest telecom in my country just banned huawei in its 5G network. I am sure this will prompt more countries to reject Huawei, especially if one of the bigger countries like Italy, France, or Spain rejects them.

I'm yet to see any concrete details of those "backdoors" they found in the Huawei equipment. I'm not saying there aren't any. But no concrete evidence of them surfaced yet. So far it's just some bullshit from the press that has zero knowledge of technology.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#107

Post by sterlind »

thkim wrote: post #49
yogthos wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to care about this in the long run, and it's pretty clear that China has already moved past US capabilities with tech like 5G. This will only spur more investment in domestic technology. China has a far better education system, a lot more people, and a government that's able to do long term planning. I expect them to leapfrog US within a decade or so.

I doubt it. Chinese system only works when they are playing catch up. There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. The system doesn't work when they need to push above everyone else.

They've already pushed above US in fab tech and manufacturing. I'd bet that IP is well-protected within China, probably just by different means (e.g. closely-guarded secrets rather than patents.) There are many examples of Chinese bazillionaires who pioneered successful companies; their education system is superior to the US and they work harder.

We've gotten lazy.. I think we have this coming to us.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#108

Post by thkim »

yogthos wrote: post #100
thkim wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which part is propaganda?

>There is no incentive for being a pioneer in a culture where IP is not protected. This is demonstrably false https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

You are confused by the "propaganda" you posted. Like I wrote in other thread, if the innovation comes at low cost, it might make sense to have no barrier to IP. Innovations in Shenzhen are low cost. It's vastly different from Samsung developing a new semiconductor manufacturing process.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#109

Post by patentatt »

aclsid wrote: post #102
patentatt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That overlooks the long history and cultural norm of borrowing or copying to advance. Chinese culture does not place the same value on pioneering as the US. If China does become a tech leader it will have to shift those deeply rooted cultural forces first. That, and their government that is capable of long term planning is also incapable of tolerating diversity, dissent, and free thought. I do not think China will be…

You seem to forget that China has like 50+ minorities that are encouraged to rise up in society, with preferred employment in the regions they are from or better chance to get at top universities. That some Uyghur have been trying to create domestic terrorism and that the central government response is blunt that is true, but the same can be said of how a lot of members of the Muslim community are treated in the West…

I wouldn’t say the US is absolutely superior in any way, if anything I’d place the progressive EU countries at the top of that list. There seems to be something rotting at the core of the US too. Just different. And while the US has its own atrocious human rights violations, so does China. And an Orwellian one-party government. We should not be defending totalitarian regimes of any kind.

And nice try trying to whitewash genocide and concentration camps, but I personally am steadfastly against fascism, for what it’s worth. You do you though.

Re: ARM memo tells staff to stop working with Huawei

#110

Post by greatpatton »

simonh wrote: post #88
captainbland wrote: post #74

It's a pretty bold move by ARM to stop working with Huawei even if it does believe that it's affected by the American ban. It seems like it's very likely to damage their image in the eyes of other non-western technology firms who could end up on America's radar. Won't a lot of execs be scratching their heads thinking, "what if we're next to be cut off in this trade war?"

If it is subject to the ban, it would be a pretty bold move to ignore it and carry on in violation of US law. Not an easy position to be in.

Yeah like US rules the world and US laws should apply to everyone! Then don't be surprised if the rest of the world prefer Chinese because as of today the last imperialistic power is the USA. By the way nobody outside of the US voted for your smart president.
Post reply on HN