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Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

bloomberg.com

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Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#11
post #5
post #2

A slap in the face to the comments that were dismissing concerns as overreactions and stating that 737-MAX would return to operation shortly. Not in EU at least.

Things are certainly looking bullish for Airbus in the aftermath of this.

And they just extended the range of the A220.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#12
post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

Passengers as a whole don't have any idea what is going on and have the memory of an amnesiac goldfish. They also don't have the ability to differentiate between planes in general, so this is probably just as likely to affect their perceptions of the A320.

This is completely wrong, and there is plenty of data that says so. Especially when you start talking about business and frequent travelers, they are notoriously picky and will cancel flights based on a plane class or even when a specific aircraft usually does the route.

https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-b...

"If you had a flight on a Boeing 737 Max next week, and the FAA decided to clear the aircraft for flight, given the issues the plane has experienced, what would you do?

53.1% of respondents said they would reschedule. Of those, the survey found that 18.7% of respondents would reschedule their flight only if it didn't require a fee. Another 4.4% of respondents said they would pay to reschedule their flight up to a certain monetary fee, which they then typed in. A full 30% of people would cancel or reschedule their flights, regardless of the cost to them"

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#13
Good. Hold them accountable and make sure that this kind of thing doesn’t happen again. Although a ‘same plane’ cert was a good goal, they should have made sure it was truly accurate instead of bending the case to make it so.

This may be as close to an ‘open and shut’ case for corporate gross negligence as we will find in quite a while (at least I hope so).

I would hate to see them go under but it should be clear that this type of corner cutting is unacceptable and future manufacturers of all kinds should think twice before stretching to put a round peg in a square hole.... especially with lives on the line.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#14
post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition.

It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passengers as a whole don't have any idea what is going on and have the memory of an amnesiac goldfish. They also don't have the ability to differentiate between planes in general, so this is probably just as likely to affect their perceptions of the A320.

This is completely wrong, and there is plenty of data that says so. Especially when you start talking about business and frequent travelers, they are notoriously picky and will cancel flights based on a plane class or even when a specific aircraft usually does the route. https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-b... "If you had a flight on a Boeing 737 Max next week, and the FAA decided to clear the…

That's a bad interpretation of this survey.

The initial question should be - have you ever checked what aircraft you will be flying ?

99% of passengers have no idea.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#16

I flied to Cyprus from Stockholm with Norwegian last week. On the plane it was written 737-800 or 737 Max. I wonder how you can tell them apart and if Norwegian uses the Max line!?

EDIT: Lol, nevermind. Go read the child comments. I failed.

There are two features you can look for:

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/48929/is-this-a...

tl;dr on the MAX the wing tips split into two (above and below the main wing), on all previous 737s, the wingtips only curve up. Also the engine cowling has some cool looky jaggies on the trailing edge.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#17
post #4
post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

Normal passengers won't even notice that they are flying in a 747 max.

Well, i am a normal passenger and wouldn't fly in one in the first place. I could tell the difference by the feeling of plunging from thousands of feet into the ground, it's very subtle, but even noticeable by the layman

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#18
post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition. It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

I'd agree with you... but on some routes (note I'm in Europe) there is only one carrier, and only 1-2 flights per day. So that choice could mean the difference between flying and not flying. With such stark choices, I suspect convenience and/or necessity would win out quite quickly.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely wrong, and there is plenty of data that says so. Especially when you start talking about business and frequent travelers, they are notoriously picky and will cancel flights based on a plane class or even when a specific aircraft usually does the route. https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-dont-want-to-fly-b... "If you had a flight on a Boeing 737 Max next week, and the FAA decided to clear the…

That's a bad interpretation of this survey. The initial question should be - have you ever checked what aircraft you will be flying ? 99% of passengers have no idea.

I don't think this 99% figure is true based on my personal experiences, but even if it was accurate a few months ago it's not anymore. People sure as hell are paying attention to which plane they fly on now, because they have to.

It wasn't really a concern in the past because Boeing and the FAA didn't appear to be failing. They have impressive mountains of data that they hid behind while just operating with staggering negligence and incompetence, day after day.

I don't care how many agencies certify the max, I know way too much about it's design and how much pilots hate it now, I'm never flying on it.

Re: Europe says 737 Max won't fly until it completes it own design review

#20
post #3

I'm curious to see how passengers will react to flying via 737-max. Will ticket prices be lowered to reflect the inevitable wariness of flying in one again?

I will not fly the 737 MAX unless and until it has its own type certificate... and even then not for at least 3-4 years of commercial service under that condition. It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets.

> It is easy to see the scheduled type of aircraft when you book tickets

That's as maybe, but is far from guaranteed to remain as-is - and how many people maintain an ExpertFlyer membership and enter their itinerary for aircraft change alerts? Unless a seat changes†, IME most airlines don't proactively send out change alerts to passengers already booked when one aircraft is swapped for another. Furthermore I would sincerely doubt anyone's ability to extract a refund because the airline changed to a plane they weren't willing to board.

† and even then it isn't guaranteed, and rarely do I notice the alerts highlighting the reason being an aircraft change

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