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Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

reuters.com

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Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#91

Post by jjeaff »

fmajid wrote: post #73
likeabbas wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t one argue that their strength in cost efficiency was largely built on the theft of IP? Without the IP barriers western countries abide by, they were able to take the best technology from multiple companies, implement it and sell it at a fraction of the price?

Not in the realm of 5G network equipment. As BT's McRae says, they are way ahead of their competitors, not something you can achieve by simply copying others' technology: https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/bts-mcrae-huawei-is-t... The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock mark…

Just because their 5g tech is the best in no way prices they didn't steal ip to get where they are.

I am not expert on networking equipment by any means. But I would assume that 5g equipment is built upon previous technology.

It would thus follow that stealing the preceding, underlying technology and then focusing resources on building out the 5g part of the tech would be the fastest/cheapest way to become a leader in 5g.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#92

Post by Barrin92 »

zaro wrote: post #42
holy_city wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not more dangerous, it's that the existing infrastructure is not (as) compromised as new infrastructure to be built with Huawei goods. It should be self evident that turning over domestic communications infrastructure to a global rival with the largest military on the planet, nuclear first strike capability, a history of violence, newly minted dictator, and global ambitions is a terrible idea. Also, the US gover…

> the largest military on the planet, nuclear first strike capability, a history of violence, newly minted dictator, When you say it like that it's not quite clear whether you are referring to China or the US.

and also funnily enough everyone else in the world, no matter how adversely positioned to the United States, still uses US goods. Is everyone in china throwing their iphone away or stopped watching hollywood movies because the US is "the enemy"? No, of course not.

I don't know if there's a name for this but I'd call it "top dog syndrome", this is possibly the first time the US witnesses another player rising up to status and they don't seem to take it well.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#93

Post by geowwy »

chrischen wrote: post #86

Has it occurred that the US opposition to using telecom equipment from Huawei might be because they can't send them a national security letter or otherwise force them to make a backdoor (kind of like how Apple resisted) for domestic spying? I feel like if China were to backdoor 5G equipment deployed to the US it'd be relatively trivial to detect by operators, and absolutely crippling to the market share of Huawei if…

I think it's partly that, and partly just that having other countries rely on you for their infrastructure gives you more political leverage. US wants to deny political leverage to China and take it for itself.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#94

Post by geowwy »

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #24

If this is a war, then did Google, Broadcom, Microsoft, the rest of the US tech sector, and the worldwide Android community just get forcibly conscripted into service by the US government?

Those companies have been actively cooperating with US intelligence since forever. No news here really.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#95

Post by chrischen »

geowwy wrote: post #93
chrischen wrote: post #86

Has it occurred that the US opposition to using telecom equipment from Huawei might be because they can't send them a national security letter or otherwise force them to make a backdoor (kind of like how Apple resisted) for domestic spying? I feel like if China were to backdoor 5G equipment deployed to the US it'd be relatively trivial to detect by operators, and absolutely crippling to the market share of Huawei if…

I think it's partly that, and partly just that having other countries rely on you for their infrastructure gives you more political leverage. US wants to deny political leverage to China and take it for itself.

The world would be a better place if people just came out straight to the point like that.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#96

Post by kingosticks »

fmajid wrote: post #73
likeabbas wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t one argue that their strength in cost efficiency was largely built on the theft of IP? Without the IP barriers western countries abide by, they were able to take the best technology from multiple companies, implement it and sell it at a fraction of the price?

Not in the realm of 5G network equipment. As BT's McRae says, they are way ahead of their competitors, not something you can achieve by simply copying others' technology: https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/bts-mcrae-huawei-is-t... The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock mark…

Is it public knowledge yet who Nokia used to fab their chip? I can tell you that's part of the reason they are late to market. They'll get there and it's not like BT isn't already trialling their prototype gear. Some of these customer statements sound like negotiating tactics.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#97

Post by pergadad »

Scramblejams wrote: post #3

For me, the key quote: The United States and its allies were derelict in not developing a 5G supplier, former Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said in a speech in London in March. “With the benefit of hindsight it beggars belief that the countries which pioneered wireless technology – the United States, the UK, Germany, Japan and with wifi, Australia have got to the point where none of them are able to pres…

Nokia

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#98

Post by navigatesol »

fmajid wrote: post #73
likeabbas wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t one argue that their strength in cost efficiency was largely built on the theft of IP? Without the IP barriers western countries abide by, they were able to take the best technology from multiple companies, implement it and sell it at a fraction of the price?

Not in the realm of 5G network equipment. As BT's McRae says, they are way ahead of their competitors, not something you can achieve by simply copying others' technology: https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/bts-mcrae-huawei-is-t... The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock mark…

>The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock market's short-term horizon.

The idea that "the stock market" prevents companies from doing any long-term development is one of the most delusional, easy to disprove memes going. Public companies in America have been churning out game-changing technology forever. The Chinese are ahead on 5G, so suddenly the system is a failure?

Going public is a capital raising mechanism, nothing more. And it's probably driven a few orders of magnitude more innovation than it's hindered. The disdain for public markets (or finance in general) on these boards is bizarre.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#99

Post by fmajid »

navigatesol wrote: post #98
fmajid wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the realm of 5G network equipment. As BT's McRae says, they are way ahead of their competitors, not something you can achieve by simply copying others' technology: https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/bts-mcrae-huawei-is-t... The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock mark…

> The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock market's short-term horizon. The idea that "the stock market" prevents companies from doing any long-term development is one of the most delusional, easy to disprove memes going. Public companies in America have been churning out game-ch…

The failure is that we let Huawei out-invest us (as in Western telecoms network equipment firms, Ericsson, Nokia, Alcatel, Lucent, Nortel, Siemens) 2 to 1 in R&D for the last 20 years. That's because Ren Zhengfei is a visionary who was prescient enough to understand the value of R&D in gaining an edge while also ruthless enough to use industrial espionage in the short term to catch up.

The current situation was completely predictable, but industrial policy has a bad name in rentier capitalist circles that dominate our policy apparatus.

Re: Hobbling Huawei: Inside the U.S. war on China’s tech giant

#100

Post by fmajid »

kingosticks wrote: post #96
fmajid wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the realm of 5G network equipment. As BT's McRae says, they are way ahead of their competitors, not something you can achieve by simply copying others' technology: https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/5g/bts-mcrae-huawei-is-t... The reality is that Huawei has been outspending its competitors in R&D by a wide margin for over two decades, because the latter are managed by bean counters in thrall to the stock mark…

Is it public knowledge yet who Nokia used to fab their chip? I can tell you that's part of the reason they are late to market. They'll get there and it's not like BT isn't already trialling their prototype gear. Some of these customer statements sound like negotiating tactics.

5G is far more about software than RF chips.
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