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Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

blog.stephenwolfram.com

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Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#261

Post by snazz »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #209
romantype wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you honestly have zero concept of what programming looks like outside of web apps Are you serious? I don't do web apps. But almost 100% of our stack is based on open source technologies. Python, Twisted, Go, etc. Every single thing we use is open source. It is ironic that you are accusing someone else of having zero concept of what programming looks like outside of web apps when one could easily think the same thin…

And then you go and quote three examples whose primary use (and for 2 out of 3, their creators and/or creator companies where web developers). And even most Go software is proprietary, hidden behind Google's bar.

You can create closed-source software using open-source software. That’s how Google made so many billions and that’s probably why the AGPL exists.

GCC was so revolutionary because it brought a pro-level (although not at the start) compiler toolchain for free and allowed developers who were so inclined to improve and modify it.

And lots of Python code is for things like machine learning, Go runs lots of DevOps/neo-infrastructure stuff, and I can’t comment on Twisted.

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#262

Post by johannes1234321 »

msla wrote: post #250
quickthrower2 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people use AWS though, right? It's about trust. Not trust in a "Amazon are good people I trust them" but more like "Amazon incentives are aligned with mine for this project, and I trust that using their platform wont f' me up down the line". Companies should derive that trust factor from other factors based on their unique circumstances. If you are Amazon's competitor for instance it is probably not wise to…

AWS is more of a commodity, right? You use it for compute and storage and networking, but how much of what you write is intrinsically tied to AWS? With what we're talking about here, there's a language and a bunch of libraries where, if the company decides to change things, your code stops working, and there's no way to make your code work again without rewriting some arbitrary amount of that code. Maybe the company…

> fahre dann mit dem Taxi zu einer Villa am Stadtrand. Ein bedienster steht am Eingang,

If you are "seriously" using AWS: A lot. Value of AWS is not that it offers compute nodes. But a full catalogue of further services and tooling APIs and migrating of that can be a big project.

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#263

Post by new4thaccount »

nikofeyn wrote: post #90
reikonomusha wrote: post #3

> Why Aren’t You Using Our Technology? It’s not open source. Even if the engine is “free”, I don’t want to build an open source product with it and hope to be granted a “free production license.” If I build something on my own time I don’t want to ask my employer to purchase a “production license” as soon as it becomes useful. Wolfram believes that mathematics software (or “computational knowledge” or whatever he cal…

> But that’s completely at odds with how most software engineers work these days. Most software is grounded in an open source development and deployment tool chain. There is a market for proprietary developer tools, but it had been dwindling since its prime-time in the 90s. that is simply not true and a rather insular view. i build large complex systems, and all of it is done with proprietary software. in fact, it is…

I will say that although most of the proprietary software that I use is closed source, one major provider has so little documentation that they're pretty much forced by customers to provide source and that is super nice. I can actually call up a dev, tell them where the problem is located, and how to fix it. This saves a lot of money in bug patching.

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#264

Post by johannes1234321 »

pokoleo wrote: post #77
reikonomusha wrote: post #3

> Why Aren’t You Using Our Technology? It’s not open source. Even if the engine is “free”, I don’t want to build an open source product with it and hope to be granted a “free production license.” If I build something on my own time I don’t want to ask my employer to purchase a “production license” as soon as it becomes useful. Wolfram believes that mathematics software (or “computational knowledge” or whatever he cal…

At one time or another, I attended a talk given by wolfram and asked roughly the same question. His response belittled the question, calling it naive. His smugness was astoundingly tone deaf. Until he figures out how to answer questions like this without using shame to cow developers into line, I’m staying away.

Of course it is naive - his business is built around it. OpenSourcing takes a lot of revenue away from him. Compensating that with support contracts and cloud services won't be easy.

Not to mention the fact that probably he doesn't own all rights for doing that. Software with such a history often contains third party licensed modules.

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#265

Post by new4thaccount »

romantype wrote: post #114
eps wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly all professional Windows development has been and still is done in Visual Studio. This alone makes your "uncommon" claim void, and there are other examples outside of the Windows ecosystem equally well-rooted in proprietory tools.

I have changed 7 jobs in 15 years so far and not once I have done Windows development in Visual Studio. Nor have I seen anyone in my company doing so. I would say Windows development in Visual Studio is by far uncommon when you compare with technologies like Python, C (with GCC or Clang), Java (OpenJDK), JavaScript, etc.

I work with a lot of C# devs using Visual Studio for some things and VSCode for others. I assume it is not uncommon in industry.

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#266

Post by reikonomusha »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #240
reikonomusha wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m open to being wrong, but my domain is not and has not been web apps. It’s mostly been things like satellite antenna control software, quantum computers, scientific computing, and AI. Each of those domains, in my experience, has been firmly grounded in open source. (It does not mean, of course, that the end product is open source.) I recognize there are some domains that are steeped in closed source solutions with…

>It’s mostly been things like satellite antenna control software IME even getting binaries from an antenna vendor can be like pulling teeth, are there some good open source solutions out there?

I was involved in the software stack for developing antenna software for the antennas themselves, which used a Linux stack with C (and even Lisp!).

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#267

Post by astura »

reikonomusha wrote: post #67
criley2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But that’s completely at odds with how most software engineers work these days. Most software is grounded in an open source development and deployment tool chain. Imagine saying this with a straight face. Maybe in web development, but the vast majority of programmers are using closed source tools to produce closed source software. You're either thinking of a tiny picture vs the whole picture (web devs vs programming…

I’m open to being wrong, but my domain is not and has not been web apps. It’s mostly been things like satellite antenna control software, quantum computers, scientific computing, and AI. Each of those domains, in my experience, has been firmly grounded in open source. (It does not mean, of course, that the end product is open source.) I recognize there are some domains that are steeped in closed source solutions with…

>What programming language stack do you (and a lot of other developers) use that’s closed source with no realistic open source alternative?

Matlab?

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#268

Post by danaur »

astura wrote: post #267
reikonomusha wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m open to being wrong, but my domain is not and has not been web apps. It’s mostly been things like satellite antenna control software, quantum computers, scientific computing, and AI. Each of those domains, in my experience, has been firmly grounded in open source. (It does not mean, of course, that the end product is open source.) I recognize there are some domains that are steeped in closed source solutions with…

>What programming language stack do you (and a lot of other developers) use that’s closed source with no realistic open source alternative? Matlab?

There are open source alternatives to Matlab like gnu octave

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#269

Post by r-w »

simias wrote: post #113
criley2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But that’s completely at odds with how most software engineers work these days. Most software is grounded in an open source development and deployment tool chain. Imagine saying this with a straight face. Maybe in web development, but the vast majority of programmers are using closed source tools to produce closed source software. You're either thinking of a tiny picture vs the whole picture (web devs vs programming…

The parent goes too far in one direction and you go too far in an other. I work in embedded linux development and my entire toolchain (kernel, userland, compiler, flashing tools, and desktop environment) are 100% open source. I suspect that people who target Windows or Mac OS might be in a different situation but that's to be expected, when you target a closed proprietary environment you end up having to use closed p…

Using a Mac. Can confirm that almost everything that’s actually built upon by other stuff is open-source. Even much of Apple’s development software is open-source.

Re: Free Wolfram Engine for Developers

#270

Post by r-w »

reikonomusha wrote: post #241
dangoor wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got no stake in this, but I'll note that from the claims Wolfram has made, they've got a 30 year track record in which notebooks going back to 1.0 still run in the latest version.

But does your version 1.0 you purchased still run? Or have you been forced to upgrade over the years?

I don’t think being forced to upgrade is as much of a concern as receiving incompatible upgrades, or not receiving anything at all. Remember, Wolfram is trying to reach industry here, not just individual software developers.
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