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Men, commit to mentor women

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Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#111
post #43
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think that is the case, but it might be a regional or cultural difference.

In America what person is going to gain by bringing accusations. The best case is pay out, but they definitely lost this job, future opportunities, etc. They are not going to get recommendations letters. As soon as you accuse someone you start costing company gigaton of money. In America we promote/keep people who make money not cost money.

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Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think this is comfort? Do you really think being afraid of accusations is a comforting situation in any way? It wouldn't hurt you to see the world through other viewpoints from time to time.

Yes. There's a whole body of language out there used to deride male behaviors in the workplace: - mansplaining: not the same as mentoring, but try drawing that Venn diagram someday. - patriarchal: Shame on men for assuming women _need_ help from them with their careers. That's a sexist assumption. Try drawing the Venn diagram for mentoring and fatherly behavior. The whole bandwagon of "microaggressions" and "unconsci…

I don't think you're disagreeing with the GP here.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#113
post #73

Then these 60% of dudes are clearly unqualified for management. Please either figure your business out or make room for someone who is capable of management. And I say this because if a manager is that afraid of accusations, they are either doing something to earn said accusations, are promoting a work environment where false accusations are easily believed, or simply just a crappy manager and probably not good at de…

> And I say this because if a manager is that afraid of accusations, they are either doing something to earn said accusations, are promoting a work environment where false accusations are easily believed, or simply just a crappy manager and probably not good at dealing with many of their male reports either.

And there is the victim blaming.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#114

What the heck. As a (trans) woman who is non-tech in a tech company I find this stat concerning. Just talk to me like a I'm a fellow human, it's not that hard! PS; not too sure what 'working alone' means in terms of a common work activity?

>Just talk to me like a I'm a fellow human, it's not that hard!

I can't/don't talk to anyone at work the way I talk to "fellow humans." When I see friends from work off the clock, that's when I treat them like fellow humans. I can't talk to them like that at the office.

Working in software, I am much more socially reserved and careful in my choice of words than at any of the blue collar jobs I've had. I can see the social pressure, I can read the norms. Telling me just to be me isn't going to work, I'm not _that_ socially oblivious.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not worse, it is the same but the other way around. Not every man is a sexist pig and not every woman is a saint. But clearly women have more power over men (in this so called men's world) where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant. Both sexes have their good and bad side. We shouldn't let our guard down and favour one over the other. How are things bad in western societies for wom…

> where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant This is not true. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

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Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#116

> As for why this is happening, 36% of men say they’ve avoided mentoring or socializing with a woman because they were nervous about how it would look. I am curious to hear all reasons. Additionally, what are they proposing as a solution here? For men to say "I am comfortable to mentor women"? Ok, how do you get them to be at that place? Just saying "it's not acceptable to be uncomfortable" does nothing. At my workpl…

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Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#117

Some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately, that’s been my lifelong experience. Maybe the response to changing culture also explains the decline in sex for young men and the number of people here saying “here, here” in response to this article rather than being constructive. This is how change works, people have to adapt. A lot of you are arguing that you should give up rather than deal with ch…

Changing culture is significantly harder than learning a new skill set. Culture isn't a defined set of rules that applies to the different people the same each time. People skills are generally one of the hardest skills to learn for the reason. Plainly there's no reason for people to learn most cultural shifts, while this shift is necessary and right, there's also an extreme variance of what's allowed or expected based on age and political leanings. While there are some really obvious lines that get crossed i.e. sexual favors, making comments about physical appearance, blatant sexist comments, most of what's being debated are things like what's appropriate physical contact? Is a supportive tap on the arm allowed? Is hugging a close co-worker allowed? What if a female coworker makes a sexually suggestive comment? What do you do if you are falsely accused and automatically assumed guilty because we're supposed to automatically believe all women? What path is there for redemption for reformed harassers? To suggest that questions like these are easily answered or even that they have a single answer among women isn't justifiable.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#118
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are saying that those categories of men overlap closely. The men that do not know how to interact with women in the workforce are closely overlapped with the men who cannot 'get past 3rd base'. I'm unsure how the modern world is affecting both areas simultaneously though. Perhaps cis-hetero women are just not putting up with things that they used too put up with.

> The men that do not know how to interact with women in the workforce are closely overlapped with the men who cannot 'get past 3rd base'. Given that the major examples are Harvey Weinstein & Co, I believe that would be comically wrong.

I mean, I didn't say the overlap was 100%. That monster would be obviously outside this.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”. What does any of that mean?

It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him. When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.

I take responsibility for my actions, but this kind of proves the point of why guys don't want to be around women in the workplace. It doesn't matter what the situation is you're automatically assumed to be a lecherous hump. My comment which was meant as a "what the hell am I supposed to say to that" could easily have been construed differently. Bad behavior? I was mentally exhausted from 12 hours on the phone, locking up for the night, and someone I barely knew starts saying sexually suggestive comments at me and literally shaking her ass as she says it. What exactly do I need to come to terms with? I apologized because whatever I said I hadn't meant to say anything. I'm not saying what I said because it would immediately identify me as it was a really awkward thing to say in any conversation but it wasn't in any way sexually suggestive, i.e. I was not making any references to performing acts on her or requesting any acts from her, nor was I asking her to take it further, I was in no way going to impact her career as I didn't even work directly with her, this was a young woman I had spoken to roughly twice prior in a simple hello in the break room. I was horribly socially awkward back then and it's taken me years to get to the point I am today in social situations, I've worked on it and gotten better and I don't tolerate sexual harassment of women in my workplace, but that's not good enough. You want to know why men stop mentoring? Because one misconstrued comment can literally cost you a job. You're automatically assumed guilty, just like on this comment thread. It kind of sounds like men need to be defensive.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"apologized either way." You have( maybe or maybe not purposefully) left out "either way" which means it need not be inappropriate by intention. Even then sadly, an apology is not enough for some weird concocted subjective self victimization and the eyes of OP's woman start putting off fire until the life of the OP gets totally ruined. "brought up her ass to me", "She shook her ass at me despite us having no real rel…

I understand where you're coming from, but still, please don't blame women at large for manipulative/narcissistic/sociopathic behavior that a minority in both genders, without distinction, might engage in. This stuff is just as bad no matter if it's coming from women or from "male sexist pigs".

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