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The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

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Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#11

Post by sandworm101 »

stcredzero wrote: post #4

The Celtic feasts that the Roman banquets displaced were just the same as what's described in the title: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power. Putting on feasts have always been a way for the wealthy to display their wealth and power, to curry favor with their underlings and to give others the opportunity to do so with them. They are also a way for a community to bond together over food, whether hierarchical…

We forget the practicality of eating. A feast was the one time most people would ever feel full. For the romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the celts a feast was precious calories. By feeding, the lord may well have been keeping his people alive. For soneone sick and under-fed (everyone) a single big meal ever month or two would be the difference life or death. They saw attendence at a feast as both honor and survival. That is a forgotten dynamic.

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#12

Post by stcredzero »

sandworm101 wrote: post #11
stcredzero wrote: post #4

The Celtic feasts that the Roman banquets displaced were just the same as what's described in the title: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power. Putting on feasts have always been a way for the wealthy to display their wealth and power, to curry favor with their underlings and to give others the opportunity to do so with them. They are also a way for a community to bond together over food, whether hierarchical…

We forget the practicality of eating. A feast was the one time most people would ever feel full. For the romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the celts a feast was precious calories. By feeding, the lord may well have been keeping his people alive. For soneone sick and under-fed (everyone) a single big meal ever month or two would be the difference life or death. They saw attendenc…

For the Romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the Celts a feast was precious calories.

Going by the information in one of Terry Gilliam's documentaries on the ancient world, for many of the Romans, it was somewhat the same as for many of the Celts. Many city dwelling roman citizens didn't have extravagant diets, and might well have been satisfied in macro-nutrients, but lacking in others.

By feeding, the lord may well have been keeping his people alive. They saw attendance at a feast as both honor and survival.

By not feeding, the Celtic noble may well have been punishing those she or he disliked. I think social hierarchies still find such physical means of manifestation in 2019.

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#13

Post by sandworm101 »

stcredzero wrote: post #12
sandworm101 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We forget the practicality of eating. A feast was the one time most people would ever feel full. For the romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the celts a feast was precious calories. By feeding, the lord may well have been keeping his people alive. For soneone sick and under-fed (everyone) a single big meal ever month or two would be the difference life or death. They saw attendenc…

For the Romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the Celts a feast was precious calories. Going by the information in one of Terry Gilliam's documentaries on the ancient world, for many of the Romans, it was somewhat the same as for many of the Celts. Many city dwelling roman citizens didn't have extravagant diets, and might well have been satisfied in macro-nutrients, but lacking in o…

Lords fed everyone, at least all the peasants. They would have issues with various other lords/people within their social circle, but the peasants were a resource not to be squandered. No peasants, no farming, no money. A lord who could afford a proper feast would not have enough regard for individual farmers to decide who should starve. Manpower was the only real source of wealth.

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#15

Post by stcredzero »

sandworm101 wrote: post #13
stcredzero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the Romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the Celts a feast was precious calories. Going by the information in one of Terry Gilliam's documentaries on the ancient world, for many of the Romans, it was somewhat the same as for many of the Celts. Many city dwelling roman citizens didn't have extravagant diets, and might well have been satisfied in macro-nutrients, but lacking in o…

Lords fed everyone, at least all the peasants. They would have issues with various other lords/people within their social circle, but the peasants were a resource not to be squandered. No peasants, no farming, no money. A lord who could afford a proper feast would not have enough regard for individual farmers to decide who should starve. Manpower was the only real source of wealth.

A lord who could afford a proper feast would not have enough regard for individual farmers to decide who should starve.

I suspect that some nobles had someone of a lower status they actively disliked. The strategy of most persons of lower status would be to not be noticed. It follows that there would be some people who would be noticed, and that sometimes, it would be in a bad way. Even in societies where the lords were obliged to feed everyone, I doubt this would prevent them from conferring favors by degree.

I recall one Roman description of a Gallic feast where it's suggested that boasting and fighting between guests would occasionally occur, and that this was regarded as one form of entertainment. (The propaganda purpose behind this, being to portray the Gauls as barbarians who would benefit from being civilized by the Romans.) As a modern person, I have a hard time understanding how, occasionally at least, this wouldn't get someone dis-invited.

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#16

Post by Amezarak »

stcredzero wrote: post #12
sandworm101 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We forget the practicality of eating. A feast was the one time most people would ever feel full. For the romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the celts a feast was precious calories. By feeding, the lord may well have been keeping his people alive. For soneone sick and under-fed (everyone) a single big meal ever month or two would be the difference life or death. They saw attendenc…

For the Romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the Celts a feast was precious calories. Going by the information in one of Terry Gilliam's documentaries on the ancient world, for many of the Romans, it was somewhat the same as for many of the Celts. Many city dwelling roman citizens didn't have extravagant diets, and might well have been satisfied in macro-nutrients, but lacking in o…

This is a preposterous claim. Neither Roman nor Celtic peasantry existed in a state of perpetual famine. There was certainly the occasional period of inflation and/or famine, but the norm was absolutely for pretty much everybody to be well-fed. They were certainly not malnourished, either. Yes, they had simple diets, but not bad ones.

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#18

Post by stcredzero »

Amezarak wrote: post #16
stcredzero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the Romans, those in the city of Rome, it may have been display. For many of the Celts a feast was precious calories. Going by the information in one of Terry Gilliam's documentaries on the ancient world, for many of the Romans, it was somewhat the same as for many of the Celts. Many city dwelling roman citizens didn't have extravagant diets, and might well have been satisfied in macro-nutrients, but lacking in o…

This is a preposterous claim. Neither Roman nor Celtic peasantry existed in a state of perpetual famine. There was certainly the occasional period of inflation and/or famine, but the norm was absolutely for pretty much everybody to be well-fed. They were certainly not malnourished, either. Yes, they had simple diets, but not bad ones.

This is a preposterous claim. Neither Roman nor Celtic peasantry existed in a state of perpetual famine...the norm was absolutely for pretty much everybody to be well-fed.

Yes, you're making a good point. Traditional societies that have lasted many generations are usually pretty good to excellent at knowing how to provide enough good food and clean water for themselves. That said, there are many people still alive who got enough food and grew up healthy, but recall always wanting to eat more as they grew up. People who are in this state are particularly affected by rewards of food.

Also, I'm not sure if Celtic societies had peasants organized like those of medieval Europe. Celtic people lived in both dispersed rural environments and in cities. There was considerable trade. The common view is that people just tended to live in the community they grew up, but that people were free otherwise. Social stratification is said to have increased over time, and perhaps things would have ended up in the same place anyhow, without the Romans. The Celts also practiced slavery, like the Romans.

Yes, they had simple diets, but not bad ones.

This can vary quite a bit in times of migration and transition.

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#19

Post by irrational »

euroclydon wrote: post #2

For anyone interested, may I recommend the History or Rome podcast. At over 150 episodes, each running roughly 25 minutes, the listener is taken from the city's founding by Romulus to the end of the empire at the hands of the Germans. https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com

That link doesn't appear to link to the history of rome podcast anymore. I think this is the current link:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-history-of-rome/id...

Re: The Lavish Roman Banquet: A Calculated Display Of Debauchery And Power

#20

Post by Balgair »

greesil wrote: post #9
euroclydon wrote: post #2

For anyone interested, may I recommend the History or Rome podcast. At over 150 episodes, each running roughly 25 minutes, the listener is taken from the city's founding by Romulus to the end of the empire at the hands of the Germans. https://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com

As a listener to this podcast, I have to say that your characterization of end of the empire "at the hands of the Germans" is a just bit of an oversimplification.

Yeah, THoR really drives home the point that 'Rome' was many things at many times. The thesis one can take away from Rome is that there never was any thesis, Rome was just really insanely lucky.
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