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Men, commit to mentor women

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91–100 of 141 posts

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You don't have to be a predator to say, or do something in a way where the other person will take it as abuse. No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but that doesn't make it right. >Just fail to identify a transgender person and use a wrong pronoun and you will find yourself in front of HR so fast that you won't have time to say sorry. Out of all the transgender people I know, they wi…

>No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but that doesn't make it right. Of course it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it a valid reason to drag that person through the dirt. Especially if something was said between the accused and a third person and the accuser was just eavesdropping on the conversation. >I think there are a vocal few who are super easily offended and too many…

People get kicked out of the conversation because men still have power. A good example of this would be this exact argument. A woman feels uncomfortable about a man and she is a "whiny snowflake" while a man feels uncomfortable about a woman and the world needs to change.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#92
post #9

> Senior-level men are now far more hesitant to spend time with junior women than junior men across a range of basic work activities.3 They are: > 12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings > 9x more likely to hesitate to travel together for work > 6x more likely to hesitate to have work dinners. I think a contributing factor is that harassment can ultimately be a he-said/she-said kind of deal. You hear horr…

> You hear horror stories about men being falsely accused and getting their lives ruined While I have heard these stories, they are all anecdotes that I wasn't able to verify. Can you give any real cases?

If we define the scope to people accused and not found guilty, then there are a lot of such cases. During #metoo there were three major cases in Swedish news, two which where the accused were not found guilty and one where the accused was found guilty.

For the two where the accused was not found guilty, they both lost all employment and had to flee the country for months with their family, received death threats, and so on. The justice ombudsman found basically all the major news papers guilty of unethical reporting regard those two individuals, and there is ongoing cases regarding slander and illegal termination of employment.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#93

Some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately, that’s been my lifelong experience. Maybe the response to changing culture also explains the decline in sex for young men and the number of people here saying “here, here” in response to this article rather than being constructive. This is how change works, people have to adapt. A lot of you are arguing that you should give up rather than deal with ch…

Why is "the decline in sex for young men" even relevant here? Most people who argue that "some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately" would say that 'behaving appropriately' means that professional interactions among strangers should not be unduly sexualized. So why even bring up sex at all, it seems like a red herring here.

I think they are saying that those categories of men overlap closely. The men that do not know how to interact with women in the workforce are closely overlapped with the men who cannot 'get past 3rd base'.

I'm unsure how the modern world is affecting both areas simultaneously though. Perhaps cis-hetero women are just not putting up with things that they used too put up with.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old status quo was horrible for women, but the current situation makes some men uncomfortable, so I guess that's worse? Or maybe changes are necessary, and the bad old days are still hanging on in the form of people failing to recognize how bad things were and still are for women.

It's not worse, it is the same but the other way around. Not every man is a sexist pig and not every woman is a saint. But clearly women have more power over men (in this so called men's world) where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant. Both sexes have their good and bad side. We shouldn't let our guard down and favour one over the other. How are things bad in western societies for wom…

> where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant

This is not true. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#95
post #9

> Senior-level men are now far more hesitant to spend time with junior women than junior men across a range of basic work activities.3 They are: > 12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings > 9x more likely to hesitate to travel together for work > 6x more likely to hesitate to have work dinners. I think a contributing factor is that harassment can ultimately be a he-said/she-said kind of deal. You hear horr…

Hence the policy of the US Vice President Mike Pence to never have a 1-on-1 meeting with any woman except his wife.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not worse, it is the same but the other way around. Not every man is a sexist pig and not every woman is a saint. But clearly women have more power over men (in this so called men's world) where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant. Both sexes have their good and bad side. We shouldn't let our guard down and favour one over the other. How are things bad in western societies for wom…

> where they can easily accuse anyone and destroy their lives in an instant This is not true. Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Saying that "this is not true", doesn't make it not true. And repeating it wont make it untrue either. Slow clap for your logic.

Also, if this would be so untrue, we wouldn't have studies like these in the first place.

But please, tell me whom would you believe sooner in a case where a man is being accused of sexual harassment, or even rape? Even if it turns out that the woman was falsely accusing him, the damage is already done. He lost his job, he receives death threats, he's being doxed, etc...

At that stage it really doesn't matter what the outcome of the court rule will be, that man has no life anymore. And what will the accuser get? One year? Maybe two?

It is the same as a father rarely wins a court case over who can take custody of the child. The mother needs to be a drug user and a very bad person for even being considered to be unfit for parenting. And I know, I have friends who lost their kids to their abusive wives.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know what OP said (or rather, mumbled out) about her body. From what OP states, it's reasonable to infer that they said "Your body is in my personal space, you're making me uncomfortable" or something to that effect . And then they got in trouble for that, which seems quite indefensible!

> my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment Whatever he said, he immediately apologized for it, and still to this day blames fatigue and confusion and says he didn't mean to say it out loud. So no, it is completely unreasonable to infer anything other than an inappropriate comment. There is not a real w…

"apologized either way."

You have( maybe or maybe not purposefully) left out "either way" which means it need not be inappropriate by intention. Even then sadly, an apology is not enough for some weird concocted subjective self victimization and the eyes of OP's woman start putting off fire until the life of the OP gets totally ruined.

"brought up her ass to me", "She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship","but they are all adults who don't behave like this to me." are as clear as sunny day.

Sounds like that stupid woman came up to him and tried to seduce, sexually harass, or pull a cheap attention mongering stunt in the name of "part of fun time at office". You may find this ridiculous but there are women who do this. I have had to push a woman off of me in not so tightly packed elevator while she was "having fun" with her butt rubbing my genitals. She in fact, laugh out loud explaining this experience with colleagues in the office as 'first time an anal' and her boyfriend later.

I was mortified and violated, fresh in the memory till date, but hey! since I am a guy, I am some closet monster prowling on women with a magical magnetic genital, who has total disregard to my sweat and blood to barely hope to lead a dignified life, have intact family and be a dedicated earner of higher promotions. Nobody should care if all of these require just one domino to start falling with, eh? Everybody can just paint me defensive and accept whatever non-sense as consequences of "my" acts.

We must just believe and be at mercy of these women or risk all that we earned if we speak up against in these situations. In the mean time, those who did, just deny deny deny and gas-light them and brush them of as liar who genetically are incapable to treat women as fellow humans.

The problem with us human beings is we have ingrained the gynocentric justice system in our minds where perhaps the women can never be wrong at all. Its always the guy's fault. Firstly we start by dismissing their experiences In the mean time, we start assigning them some "responsibility" they didn't need to burden themselves with in this misandrist new world. This is insulting to men and greatest injustice to other women as well.

The OP's situation is also the time where people in same page say acceptable light-hearted comments which otherwise would be inappropriate or lewd. These comments are passed by women themselves routinely and accepted very well by bosses. For I have seen women spank a guy's arse and praise "sexy!" in stationary rooms or pull tie and ask something work related with innuendos, etc. I mean obviously an action gets a reaction, however confused or exhausted it may be. In fact, many do have a slip of tongue in exhaustion, how so ever we press hard to deny them of their own life experiences. We should not treat men like they don't matter, they are constantly doubted, they are not valued and be dismissed just because the opposite party in the situation happens to be a woman.

There should be laws that outright fire these women with a code of conduct stamp as sexual harasser. That is the supposed real world we should give women to train them to treat men with respect and stop gas-lighting them.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is people don't know what will offend you so they play the safe route of avoiding all contact. No discussions means no risk of lawsuit, accusations etc. I used to work at a construction company where the owner was paranoid about sexual harassment lawsuits. For this reason, he specifically hired overweight older women for all of the administrative staff because he knew this would minimize the risk of sexua…

'specifically hired overweight older women for all of the administrative staff because he knew this would minimize the risk of sexual harassment lawsuits' I honestly cannot believe this mindset exists, that's insane. Basing hiring decisions like this is redic. It also assumes overweight older women are not attractive, and idk whether they've seen porn website stats but that's a flawed assumption.

[deleted]

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No you don't and this is a problem. Anybody can say something abusive but that doesn't make it right. Of course it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it a valid reason to drag that person through the dirt. Especially if something was said between the accused and a third person and the accuser was just eavesdropping on the conversation. >I think there are a vocal few who are super easily offended and too many…

People get kicked out of the conversation because men still have power. A good example of this would be this exact argument. A woman feels uncomfortable about a man and she is a "whiny snowflake" while a man feels uncomfortable about a woman and the world needs to change.

Haha, good job trying to take it out of context. Of course I used a woman as analogy, given the current topic.

Anyone can be a snowflake, but still the main goal is, that people shouldn't be over sensitive when it comes to words or mistakes. It's one thing being targeted and one thing hearing something you don't like and throw a tantrum over it, or destroying another human's life.

> because men still have power.

So you're saying men kick out men for pointing out biases towards men? Yeah, sure.

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