Live data from Hacker News

“It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

twitter.com

371–380 of 384 posts

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#371
post #37

They're talking past each other. Thing is, they're both right. Paul seems to be saying you don't have to be rich to do a startup. Matthew is saying lots of founder have some resources (family home, savings, great education, i.e. middle-class) that made doing a startup feasible Both these positions are true and aren't incompatible. Being middle class (Matthew's position) and prudent with savings can afford you probabl…

"You literally need six figures in your bank account to do a startup" isn't a thing that people actually argue. Paul might be technically correct but he's arguing against a strawman. In this context, rich is a shorthand for financial privilege, which doesn't tend to come in the form of dollars in your bank account when you're young.

It's difficult to have a meaningful discussion about social issues when words like "rich" can range in meaning from "peer of Warren Buffet" to "some member of your extended family owns property somewhere in the world". This is not made easier when not all parties in a given conversation are using the same definitions and haven't stopped to compare notes.

Fuzzy definitions are great when you're posturing politically. In those cases, you want people to be able to apply their own definitions. But political posturing is antithetical to meaningful discussion, so...

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#372
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychologically this is not true at all. It's much easier to take risks when you have nothing to lose. How many 18-30 year olds do you see having a swing at it and trying something, vs 30+ people with families and savings to burn?

Most successful startup founders are in their 30s and 40s. Providing a link: https://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2009/04/educati...

That's not actually relevant to what I'm saying.

The more relevant question would be, what % of 20-30 and 30-40 year olds start businesses?

I'm not surprised most become successful over 30, it takes time to learn.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#373
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You literally need six figures in your bank account to do a startup" isn't a thing that people actually argue. Paul might be technically correct but he's arguing against a strawman. In this context, rich is a shorthand for financial privilege, which doesn't tend to come in the form of dollars in your bank account when you're young.

It's difficult to have a meaningful discussion about social issues when words like "rich" can range in meaning from "peer of Warren Buffet" to "some member of your extended family owns property somewhere in the world". This is not made easier when not all parties in a given conversation are using the same definitions and haven't stopped to compare notes. Fuzzy definitions are great when you're posturing politically.…

I agree completely. It's one of the biggest problems I have with left-leaning activists, especially on Twitter. They abuse terminology constantly (like using rich to refer to the much broader concept of financial privilege) and it causes a ton of problems. So much online discourse is just people talking past each other using different definitions.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think someone's ending point as an adult is largely limited to their "brains"? Like, how are you going to completely exclude the upbringing environment and the scarcity and struggle for resources that some folks face.

It's not "what I think", it's what we know. One of the most well established facts in sociology is that IQ is the best predictor for life success: Firkowska-Mankiewicz, Anna, and Jerzyna Słomczyńska. Intelligence (IQ) as a Predictor of Life Success. https://www.jstor.org/stable/20628656 You reiterate my question in the second sentence: How do we weight these different privileges?

IQ is an output of environmental factors.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#376
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but he’s making a category error, and it’s so obvious as to be irresponsible coming from a person in his position. All it takes is one person who succeeds who is not defined as rich for his statement to be technically true, even if every other poor founder fails and dies in poverty.

What do you mean by category error? All he says is that poor people can succeed at startups, too. How is that making a category error?

It’s not all he said. He also included his anecdote about the AirBnB founders.

It’s a category error in that his statement is a binary one i.e. true/false, which he is using to defeat arguments which are about continua.

That is a category error.

It’s also a common method of deceptive persuasion - i.e. a dark pattern, but I don’t think PG was doing that on purpose, hence my assumption that it was an error.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#377
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is high achievement possible for poor people or not? That's the only thing in question here. Arguing that it's harder for people who start off disadvantaged in some way is a tautology, and in context does nothing but discourage people. People don't need you to tell them about their risks, they live them every day. What they need is for people to shine a light on their opportunities. Because that's the part that's har…

You’re making a false distinction between risks and opportunities. A startup is both a risk, and an opportunity. If you incorrectly judge that risk, you have the potential to end up with fewer opportunities than before. The poorer you are the worse the impact of this will be. Therefore it is important for anyone, rich or poor, to have a good assessment of the risk of trying to launch a startup. How are people who are…

Is there a rash of poor people destroying their lives by trying and failing to build a startup? I don't see any. Worst case scenario seems to be they fail and get a regular job with the new skills they built while creating the startup.

I'm curious to know what risks involved in creating an startup the average person in the projects would be incapable of seeing on their own.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#378
If you are in india the emotional blackmail and the pressure to marry before 30 is a huge hindrance. In india a graduate has no real world knowledge when he gets out of college. It takes about 6 to 8 years to get the confidence in coding and creating something. But by the time the marriage is done and no way to take risk. To be honest the salary earned by women is like an additional income and never considered primary income in 99 percent marriages.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#379
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost to live in a decent sized city are much less than that in most cities. Sure Silicon Valley is going to be more. Also every city has rich areas that are more. However in most cities there are poor neighborhoods where rent is under $1000, and you can share that with a few roommates. If you tastes are to a stove that you don't need to light with a match, sidewalks that are even, and other nice things: that will cos…

> in most cities there are poor neighborhoods where rent is under $1000 Average income is about US$11000 a year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28no... And most people make less money than that, because the distribution isn't symmetric. The fact that "rent under $1000" seems low to you indicates that you live in a bubble.

I should have qualified that with US. You can rent a mud hut for few bucks in some remote backward village, but that is obviously not a lifestyle anyone reading this would wish.
Post reply on HN