> Today’s car has the computing power of 20 personal computers
Then why does the touchscreen still lag as if powered by a Pentium 4?
Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
41–50 of 256 posts
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". Huh? How is users wanting to control the personal data they create (e.g. telemetrics) an “extreme” movement?
Semantics :), the device created the data, they played a role but I don't see why that means they control it. If the data plays a role in improving services or life for everyone let the data serve its role. We still need strong regulations and gov agencies to enforce/protect, but I just don't see the point of claiming everything is your data blah blah.
> the device created the data, they played a role but I don't see why that means they control it
The user owns the device. Full stop.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#43Something that bothers me is why are companies so casual about attaching fragile networked software to long-lived durable goods like cars? The manufacturer has no economic or legal incentive to keep that patched over the life of the hardware.
This is the rotten shortsighted mindset of modern-day tech: all the benefit for the company, none of the responsibility.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because I own the car and it is, in reality, extremely sensitive data that can reveal everything from your political beliefs to your sexual orientation.
Why is that sensitive data? I am going to be a tad provocative here and hope people can dig deep and think about this :) Facebook already has this, and most people are sharing this in the public sphere. I understand the worry and damage that can be done, but I feel like we are moving from a 1950s model of hide it all and pretend you a perfect, to more of a this is who I am and let me live my life as long as it doesn'…
Yes.
But.
We haven't actually achieved that state of grace yet, so in the meantime, in some times and places people actually can be in danger because of who they are. Perhaps you have seen the names Muhlaysia Booker or Jamal Kashoggi in the news recently.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hey, if the car manufacturer wants my data, fine. But they should have to buy it from me, not be allowed to build a system that gives them my data for free by default. What Tesla does in particular is extremely egregious: Even if you don't pay for Autopilot and hence can't use those sensors, Tesla still collects data using sensors you own on your car!
> not be allowed to build a system that gives them my data for free by default. What do you mean by 'not allowed'. you have the option to not buy tsla if its such a concern to you. There are tons of ppl who are ok with giving out their data for free why shouldn't they be 'not allowed'. Weird agrument, I don't like it so noone else should either.
> What do you mean by 'not allowed'. you have the option to not buy tsla if its such a concern to you.
This is a dangerous way of thinking. Transportation is a requirement for getting ahead in life. Signing away your rights to privacy should not ever be a requirement to obtain transportation.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
If data is generated by something I own then it is my data and I don't care if it affects someone's business model or whatever perceived future benefit they are promising. And trying to maintain status quo is not extreme privacy movement , it's common sense.
https://www.tesla.com/about/legal there is section for "From or about your Tesla vehicle" Its a bit weird to agree to this when buying your vehicle and complain about it later. Its not like they are doing it behind your back like FB, they are telling you upfront what they are collecting. how can you possibly have a problem with that.
1) Huh, what makes you believe I own Tesla - maybe that is not what you're implying but kinda confused by your wording.
2) Still, thanks for pointing that out. Now, I'm even less inclined to buy a Tesla.
3) Wonder what happens in private sale of used Tesla, since the second owner never agreed to such terms, or did they? (Depends on when these terms are presented to them). Could lead to a class action, just saying...
4) Are we now at a place that in addition to the vague financial terms people will have to also comb through T&Cs before buying a car. If so, that is not a good heathy trend.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#47> Modern cars collect as much as 25 gigabytes of data per hour. Links to this McKinsey study as a source: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/... Which says: > Today’s car has the computing power of 20 personal computers, features about 100 million lines of programming code, and processes up to 25 gigabytes of data an hour. McKinsey doesn't cite any sources. But more importantly, processing 25…
This is just using different scales to mislead. 25GB/hr is about 7MB/s which isn't even the computing power of a cell phone.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not be allowed to build a system that gives them my data for free by default. What do you mean by 'not allowed'. you have the option to not buy tsla if its such a concern to you. There are tons of ppl who are ok with giving out their data for free why shouldn't they be 'not allowed'. Weird agrument, I don't like it so noone else should either.
And for those willing to share, it's perfectly reasonable for there to be an opt-in option.
thats for tsla to decide how they do it.
They are stating upfront what they are collecting.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#49Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…
Why???
Why should my data go someplace else so others can use it as the basis to build a case for further erosion of rights and perpetuation of economic business models biased in favor of centralization of control and decision making capability.
You: >Privacy is a spectrum. I am getting kinda tired how people think data some widget I made to exfiltrates about other people is "theirs".
Us: You wouldn't even be able to gather anything without me, and frankly, it's none of your damned business what I do. You want data collected? Go hire somebody to generate it for you.
Expected epiphany: Now maybe I should have to design telemetry collecting/sending devices to require an explicit, physical opt-in, by shipping the devices with the telemetry data collection physically turned off, and a statement about your data gathering program, tangible immediate benefits to the customer for opting in, legally binding language defining a strict procedure for my company to acquire informed consent when sharing said data with third parties, plus contingency plans detailing the destruction of, or end of life treatment of data on the event of merger, acquisition, bankruptcy or other major business event, with concessions exposing the company to sufficient punitive damages in case of breach of contract, and a manual containing a procedure for physically enabling the data collection.
Epiphany instead achieved: but I am so tired of this extreme pricey movement.
Works both ways chief.
Industrialists/wannabe industrialists just prefer it when the sheep don't ask inconvenient questions like "hold up, how do you determine what you're eating for dinner?" or "We seem to be giving up quite a bit in return for what amounts to (thing that solves an already sufficiently solved physical problem, but now with computers, to exponentially increase the potential for new revenue extraction schemes through software and data collection), what are you putting on the line, or doing to ensure my privacy and confidentiality as a customer?".
Stop not thinking about anything more than first order consequences, using dark design patterns to get what you want anyway because no one checks the defaults or license agreements, and actually make a good run of proving you actually want to be above board with customers instead of scoring another quick buck off your position as the manufacturer and maybe reactionary forces won't be as extreme.
Not that hard, right? Just do the right thing.
Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the contrary, the how you do it includes where and when you do it, which is a major privacy concern. Sure, a black box to get telemetry after the fact might make sense, with specificity and my explicit knowledge when access happens. I'd have a hard time turning that into free data for any particular company or government to have though, vehicular deaths aren't the only issue in our world.
Very good point. Although, in the case of an accident, isn't your location already a matter of public record?
The location of the crash is public. Who was involved is not. AFAIK You can download the locations of fatality crashes here. ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/fars/