Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#21

Post by jchrisa » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #18

I'm all for retaining ownership of your Spotify playlists, Bluetooth synced contact list and location data. But given the number of vehicular deaths, I'm all for having authorities access blackbox-style data like pedal state, acceleration vectors etc. that some controllers already keep around. If you are operating a 100 kW machine in public, how you do it isn't a privacy concern.

Agree. Any activity that is so hostile to other people should be monitored aggressively, and privileges revoked for the slightest reason. By the same token, you should need to file an individual route permit anytime you want to exceed 20 mph in a multi-ton vehicle. The externalized social costs of designating ~25% of our cities' surface area to violent human exclusion zones is hard to overstate. For one example, it's become rare for children to walk (to school or anywhere.) How much is that worth?

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#22

Post by wiggler00m » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

"What carmakers are doing with the collected data isn’t clear."

Carmakers will reduce the mortality rate from motor vehicle accidents to almost zero (with full autonomy), using the collected data.

There were 37,133 MV deaths in the USA in 2017 (more than 0.01% of the population) according to Wiki.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#23

Post by dominotw » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #8

bwb wrote: post #2

Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…

If data is generated by something I own then it is my data and I don't care if it affects someone's business model or whatever perceived future benefit they are promising. And trying to maintain status quo is not extreme privacy movement , it's common sense.

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal

there is section for "From or about your Tesla vehicle"

Its a bit weird to agree to this when buying your vehicle and complain about it later.

Its not like they are doing it behind your back like FB, they are telling you upfront what they are collecting. how can you possibly have a problem with that.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#24

Post by bwb » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

lmkg wrote: post #9

bwb wrote: post #2

Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…

Because car manufacturers tried to sell the data to advertisers, until they backed down because of the PR shitstorm (the article doesn't go into sufficient detail about this). If people are over-reacting towards privacy, that's understandable and well-deserved considering the over-reaches of data owners. I think we need better privacy regulation. And "better" doesn't necessarily mean more restrictive, although quit a…

Well said, we need a strong government entity to actually police data and how it is used. And, like you said better privacy regulation to mark the difference.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#25

Post by ghaff » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:35 PM UTC

cheerlessbog wrote: post #12

0n34n7 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s throw in our toasters, fridges and washing machines as well. Then some data scientist can correlate the best before dates of foods in my fridge by the number of panties in the washer in order to target me with ads for tummy meds.

Not as creepy as giving a big corporation access to microphones around your house. It astounds me that much of America has done exactly that.

I assume you don't use a smartphone, for the sake of consistency. It's really hard for me to draw a distinction between home voice assistants that you can activate via a voice command and smartphones that you can activate via a voice command.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#26

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

bwb wrote: post #2

Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…

[deleted]

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#27

Post by nostalgk » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

cheerlessbog wrote: post #12

0n34n7 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s throw in our toasters, fridges and washing machines as well. Then some data scientist can correlate the best before dates of foods in my fridge by the number of panties in the washer in order to target me with ads for tummy meds.

Not as creepy as giving a big corporation access to microphones around your house. It astounds me that much of America has done exactly that.

Is there evidence that the big name home devices like Google Home and Amazon Echo actually collect your speech? I was under the impression it was just a small ARM board that uses recognition to execute commands. My mom has a Dot, but I am clueless.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#28

Post by dominotw » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #20

bwb wrote: post #2

Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…

Hey, if the car manufacturer wants my data, fine. But they should have to buy it from me, not be allowed to build a system that gives them my data for free by default. What Tesla does in particular is extremely egregious: Even if you don't pay for Autopilot and hence can't use those sensors, Tesla still collects data using sensors you own on your car!

> not be allowed to build a system that gives them my data for free by default.

What do you mean by 'not allowed'. you have the option to not buy tsla if its such a concern to you. There are tons of ppl who are ok with giving out their data for free why shouldn't they be 'not allowed'.

Weird agrument, I don't like it so noone else should either.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#29

Post by danso » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

bwb wrote: post #14

danso wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". Huh? How is users wanting to control the personal data they create (e.g. telemetrics) an “extreme” movement?

Semantics :), the device created the data, they played a role but I don't see why that means they control it. If the data plays a role in improving services or life for everyone let the data serve its role. We still need strong regulations and gov agencies to enforce/protect, but I just don't see the point of claiming everything is your data blah blah.

If the device is the primary contributor in terms of “creating the data”, then why are users needed?

The users and their personal behavior and usage metrics are obviously the valuable part of the data — not the device that logs and measures the data. Also, (though I’m sure there’s “semantic” nuance in this too), the users are the ones who pay to possess and maintain the data-creating device.

Re: Car Owners Should Control Data Collected by Cars

#30

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, May 21, 2019, 3:38 PM UTC

bwb wrote: post #2

Why? Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on. Privacy is a spectrum, I am getting kinda tired how people think data about them is "theirs". In some cases maybe it should be, in other cases, it should not be. Now maybe you should have a right to see it, download it, and remove identifying markers but I am so tired of this extreme…

> Why not have that data go someplace it could do real good in informing better safety systems, better traffic management and so on.

Sure, why not? The issue isn't about the data going there (it's not going there anyway), it's about who can tell where the data can go. That's the definition of ownership. Data generated by my car should be owned by me, I should be able to give them to the public if I so choose. But more importantly, I want to be able to easily access this data.

As others say, this is not extreme, it's common sense.

Tangential: what irks me about data ownership discussions is that they tend to divide people into three classes: the government, the business, and the unwashed masses, i.e. consumers. I'm a member of the fourth group - technically sophisticated enough to do better job with the data than your average businesses, but not interested in building products - just DYI one-off solutions for myself. There's plenty of people in this class, but it's always pushed aside as a "small minority".