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Men, commit to mentor women

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Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#71

Post by 0815test »

alphabettsy wrote: post #67
throwaway84538 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I was let go due to "financial reasons" because a co-worker brought up her ass to me and my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment. I immediately apologized either way. She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship, me being married, her being 10 years you…

She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”. What does any of that mean?

Presumably, it means that OP was made uncomfortable and voiced that discomfort in some way, and she took it badly/got offended for whatever reason. It's hard to say more than that based on what he/she stated - but even that implies that the workplace culture must be quite bad there. Not the sort of place many men would want to work in, for sure!

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#72

Post by luckylion »

alphabettsy wrote: post #65
luckylion wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also same logic can be applied to any minority who is not in power. No, not really. There are basically zero (published) incidents where, for example, a black guy claims somebody else insulted him when they were alone. For trans women (not f2m, as far as I know), it gets dicey as well. And you're certainly right: you'll treat them differently, which may be unfair to them, but risk you career to treat them fairly? I…

What? Even my local news has had stories about black people claiming they were called racial slurs or subjected to racist jokes at work. Google “GM plant racism” for a national story, of Tesla, or Chrysler. It’s been an issue at all in the last few years.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say there isn't any racism, I meant it's not a he-said-she-said-situation that can end careers without any evidence of wrongdoing.

The Toledo plant sounds very different from that, with "whites only" signs and nooses (and management tolerating it). The men who are not mentoring women for the reasons stated in the article certainly don't openly insult and harass them, because that would end their careers much, much quicker than mentoring them and being falsely accused of inappropriate behavior.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#73

Post by triplee »

Then these 60% of dudes are clearly unqualified for management. Please either figure your business out or make room for someone who is capable of management.

And I say this because if a manager is that afraid of accusations, they are either doing something to earn said accusations, are promoting a work environment where false accusations are easily believed, or simply just a crappy manager and probably not good at dealing with many of their male reports either.

I note the last one because the two main archetypes that feel this way tend to be older management types that were taught by Mad Men era managers (read overgrown frat boys) or are Mike Pence style ultra-niche religious. Now, again, neither of those are flaws in and of themselves, but if you can't come above those backgrounds and manage a diverse team, then you don't deserve a team.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#74

Post by pwinnski »

alphabettsy wrote: post #67
throwaway84538 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I was let go due to "financial reasons" because a co-worker brought up her ass to me and my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment. I immediately apologized either way. She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship, me being married, her being 10 years you…

She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”. What does any of that mean?

It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him.

When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#75

Post by pwinnski »

MrLeftHand wrote: post #56

Well, this is where social media and social justice brought us. People are so afraid of each other that they actively try to barricade themselves in real life. We thought we are opening doors, but we are actually closing them, one by one. Instead of following a simple 'live and let live' rule, we are now actively hunting for the slightest mistakes and missteps. Humans can't be humans anymore, there is no room for err…

The old status quo was horrible for women, but the current situation makes some men uncomfortable, so I guess that's worse?

Or maybe changes are necessary, and the bad old days are still hanging on in the form of people failing to recognize how bad things were and still are for women.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#76

Post by apacheCamel »

MrLeftHand wrote: post #56

Well, this is where social media and social justice brought us. People are so afraid of each other that they actively try to barricade themselves in real life. We thought we are opening doors, but we are actually closing them, one by one. Instead of following a simple 'live and let live' rule, we are now actively hunting for the slightest mistakes and missteps. Humans can't be humans anymore, there is no room for err…

I think there are a lot of gives and takes here. People being "afraid" of each other seems a bit dramatic. I think this may be the first time many men in the workplace had to sit back and evaluate the things they say before they say them. This movement has shed light on some of the utterly repulsive behavior people have been getting away with for years, now people just ask you to think twice before telling a joke. If thinking before saying something to a female coworker is that difficult for so many, then I am not really sure what we can do to fix it.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#77

Post by 0815test »

pwinnski wrote: post #74
alphabettsy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”. What does any of that mean?

It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him. When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.

We don't know what OP said (or rather, mumbled out) about her body. From what OP states, it's reasonable to infer that they said "Your body is in my personal space, you're making me uncomfortable" or something to that effect. And then they got in trouble for that, which seems quite indefensible!

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#78

Post by microwavecamera »

xupybd wrote: post #5

It’s a simple risk reward call. There is far more risk of accidentally crossing the line with the opposite sex. Yes MeToo has shed light on a lot and no doubt been a net positive but there will be a time until the dust settles and people learn how to work together safely. We no longer have a good formal set of norms for male female interaction. Maybe that could make some sense in situations like the work place where…

That's a load of BS. Have you ever been accused of "crossing the line" with a male colleague? Have you even been concerned that you might? If not, then I think I found your problem. If someone can't come in to work and do something as simple a act like a professional around their co-workers for a few hours then it makes me wonder what else they can't do professionally.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#79

Post by microwavecamera »

0815test wrote: post #77
pwinnski wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him. When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.

We don't know what OP said (or rather, mumbled out) about her body. From what OP states, it's reasonable to infer that they said "Your body is in my personal space, you're making me uncomfortable" or something to that effect . And then they got in trouble for that, which seems quite indefensible!

That's a straw man argument built on pure conjecture. We're all educated adults here, that not going work.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#80

Post by pwinnski »

0815test wrote: post #77
pwinnski wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like he said something inappropriate about a coworker's body, but it's still somehow the coworker's fault and a false allegation, according to him. When your self-reporting still makes you sound defensive about bad behavior, you probably need to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, your actions.

We don't know what OP said (or rather, mumbled out) about her body. From what OP states, it's reasonable to infer that they said "Your body is in my personal space, you're making me uncomfortable" or something to that effect . And then they got in trouble for that, which seems quite indefensible!

> my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment

Whatever he said, he immediately apologized for it, and still to this day blames fatigue and confusion and says he didn't mean to say it out loud. So no, it is completely unreasonable to infer anything other than an inappropriate comment.

There is not a real world in which people are making innocent statements innocently and losing their jobs. That is a fantasy world that exists in the fever dreams of men who have trouble treating women as people.

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