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Men, commit to mentor women

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Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#61

Post by WeirdFlexButOky »

anonymous5133 wrote: post #18
WeirdFlexButOky wrote: post #7

What the heck. As a (trans) woman who is non-tech in a tech company I find this stat concerning. Just talk to me like a I'm a fellow human, it's not that hard! PS; not too sure what 'working alone' means in terms of a common work activity?

The problem is people don't know what will offend you so they play the safe route of avoiding all contact. No discussions means no risk of lawsuit, accusations etc. I used to work at a construction company where the owner was paranoid about sexual harassment lawsuits. For this reason, he specifically hired overweight older women for all of the administrative staff because he knew this would minimize the risk of sexua…

'specifically hired overweight older women for all of the administrative staff because he knew this would minimize the risk of sexual harassment lawsuits'

I honestly cannot believe this mindset exists, that's insane. Basing hiring decisions like this is redic. It also assumes overweight older women are not attractive, and idk whether they've seen porn website stats but that's a flawed assumption.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#62

Post by WeirdFlexButOky »

WordSkill wrote: post #27
WeirdFlexButOky wrote: post #7

What the heck. As a (trans) woman who is non-tech in a tech company I find this stat concerning. Just talk to me like a I'm a fellow human, it's not that hard! PS; not too sure what 'working alone' means in terms of a common work activity?

The whole trans thing has become so politicized over the past few years, I suspect a lot of guys would worry that a trans colleague would be far more likely to construe innocent interactions as discrimination.

I'm sorry if there are people who feel this way.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#63

Post by snovv_crash »

timavr wrote: post #46
luckylion wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also same logic can be applied to any minority who is not in power. No, not really. There are basically zero (published) incidents where, for example, a black guy claims somebody else insulted him when they were alone. For trans women (not f2m, as far as I know), it gets dicey as well. And you're certainly right: you'll treat them differently, which may be unfair to them, but risk you career to treat them fairly? I…

Well that’s why people in power and leadership roles make big bucks. They must make sure that everyone performs to the max of their ability and at the same time limit risks. Otherwise it is work discrimination light.

If one person's unverified accusation can completely ruin the life of someone else, who really has the power here?

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#64

Post by alphabettsy »

Some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately, that’s been my lifelong experience. Maybe the response to changing culture also explains the decline in sex for young men and the number of people here saying “here, here” in response to this article rather than being constructive.

This is how change works, people have to adapt. A lot of you are arguing that you should give up rather than deal with changing culture, more for the rest I guess.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#65

Post by alphabettsy »

luckylion wrote: post #42
timavr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a result, you treat them unfairly vs male colleagues. Also same logic can be applied to any minority who is not in power. I can’t be in room with black, trans-gender, gay, immigrants etc. So as result the only people who you built relationships are white straight dudes which get promoted.

> Also same logic can be applied to any minority who is not in power. No, not really. There are basically zero (published) incidents where, for example, a black guy claims somebody else insulted him when they were alone. For trans women (not f2m, as far as I know), it gets dicey as well. And you're certainly right: you'll treat them differently, which may be unfair to them, but risk you career to treat them fairly? I…

What? Even my local news has had stories about black people claiming they were called racial slurs or subjected to racist jokes at work. Google “GM plant racism” for a national story, of Tesla, or Chrysler. It’s been an issue at all in the last few years.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#66

Post by throwaway84538 »

reboog711 wrote: post #52
midasz wrote: post #9

> Senior-level men are now far more hesitant to spend time with junior women than junior men across a range of basic work activities.3 They are: > 12x more likely to hesitate to have 1-on-1 meetings > 9x more likely to hesitate to travel together for work > 6x more likely to hesitate to have work dinners. I think a contributing factor is that harassment can ultimately be a he-said/she-said kind of deal. You hear horr…

> You hear horror stories about men being falsely accused and getting their lives ruined While I have heard these stories, they are all anecdotes that I wasn't able to verify. Can you give any real cases?

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I was let go due to "financial reasons" because a co-worker brought up her ass to me and my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment. I immediately apologized either way. She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship, me being married, her being 10 years younger than me and her talking about it, but I was sexually harassing her in her eyes. I can say for certain real sexual harrasment happens and I've even put a stop to it in more than one occasion in my management role or at family settings, but I've definitely been falsely accused. I brought up the conversation to my wife the night it happened and she thought it was hilarious because she knows me. Especially back then I was very socially awkward. Something I've worked at for years to get better at. I now work with multiple female coworkers very well, but they are all adults who don't behave like this to me.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#67

Post by alphabettsy »

throwaway84538 wrote: post #66
reboog711 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You hear horror stories about men being falsely accused and getting their lives ruined While I have heard these stories, they are all anecdotes that I wasn't able to verify. Can you give any real cases?

Throwaway for obvious reasons. I was let go due to "financial reasons" because a co-worker brought up her ass to me and my confused reply, which I didn't mean to say it loud but being exhausted it slipped part my filter and I mumbled it out loud, was cited as sexual harassment. I immediately apologized either way. She shook her ass at me despite us having no real relationship, me being married, her being 10 years you…

She “brought up her ass to you” and your reply “slipped part your filter”. What does any of that mean?

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#68

Post by who-knows95 »

WeirdFlexButOky wrote: post #59
who-knows95 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except, there are a whole bunch of factors that play into this. it's not just men seeing woman as something other than human, it's fear, misinformation, the idea the men are always the predator, mixed with the fact that both legitimate and illegitimate claims look the same i.e he said/ she said, half the time. I totally get why men are aware that any misstep, even in it's most accidental way could be seen as harassme…

'plus, from a outside perspective, a male boss working closely with a younger female is always going to raise eyebrows, even if their relationship is purely work/professional.' Hard disagree.

you are allowed to disagree, but from my view/experience that's the standard.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#69

Post by slowmovintarget »

MrLeftHand wrote: post #57
gshdg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so we’re still denying women opportunity for the sake of the comfort of men.

Do you think this is comfort? Do you really think being afraid of accusations is a comforting situation in any way? It wouldn't hurt you to see the world through other viewpoints from time to time.

Yes. There's a whole body of language out there used to deride male behaviors in the workplace:

- mansplaining: not the same as mentoring, but try drawing that Venn diagram someday.

- patriarchal: Shame on men for assuming women _need_ help from them with their careers. That's a sexist assumption. Try drawing the Venn diagram for mentoring and fatherly behavior.

The whole bandwagon of "microaggressions" and "unconscious bias" where people are attempting to solve for thought crime gets us here, where it is safer to disengage.

Re: Men, commit to mentor women

#70

Post by 0815test »

alphabettsy wrote: post #64

Some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately, that’s been my lifelong experience. Maybe the response to changing culture also explains the decline in sex for young men and the number of people here saying “here, here” in response to this article rather than being constructive. This is how change works, people have to adapt. A lot of you are arguing that you should give up rather than deal with ch…

Why is "the decline in sex for young men" even relevant here? Most people who argue that "some men truly don’t know how to conduct themselves appropriately" would say that 'behaving appropriately' means that professional interactions among strangers should not be unduly sexualized. So why even bring up sex at all, it seems like a red herring here.
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