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The Case for Rooms

citylab.com

151–160 of 165 posts

Re: The Case for Rooms

#151
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chopping vegetables, yes. But when the fire is on, or there's a frying pan, I wish everyone would leave the kitchen. I don't want to be responsible for any burns or accidents. Now that I think about it, when I'm holding a sharp knife I also want everyone away. My fear is that a chatty guest who's not paying attention will walk into the point of my knife (and yes, because of that fear I'm constantly worrying about whe…

Huh. I used to be 12 years old kid who was cooking his lunch and dinner while a 3 years old brother and 5 years old sister were in the room, with zero problems. Do you have a really tiny kitchen or what's the problem?

I’m imagining something to do with frying bacon, tossing things in a wok, or transferring a cast-iron pan to the broiler. Or maybe even torching creme brûlée!

Not every cooking task is a nice, safe, contained-in-an-appliance chore. Sometimes you’re playing with open flames, hot oil, red-hot metal, and other delights that you wouldn’t generally imagine in the proximity of an infant.

Of course, only some cuisines have cooking tasks that look like that; this whole thread is people from different cultural culinary traditions talking past one-another because they have totally different ideas of what goes on in the kitchen.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#152
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I used to be 12 years old kid who was cooking his lunch and dinner while a 3 years old brother and 5 years old sister were in the room, with zero problems. Do you have a really tiny kitchen or what's the problem?

I’m imagining something to do with frying bacon, tossing things in a wok, or transferring a cast-iron pan to the broiler. Or maybe even torching creme brûlée! Not every cooking task is a nice, safe, contained-in-an-appliance chore. Sometimes you’re playing with open flames, hot oil, red-hot metal, and other delights that you wouldn’t generally imagine in the proximity of an infant. Of course, only some cuisines have…

Yes but the GP has wrote that they even prefer different floor plans because of this very issue, pointing at its generality

Or do you think their regular everyday kitchen tasks are that different? I was also using frying pans to make steaks, fries, schnitzels, ... baking oven for strudels or chicken...

Re: The Case for Rooms

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want them away from boiling water, dropped knives, and dangerously hot ovens. This sort of stuff is exactly why the separate kitchen doesn't work at our house. The kids want to be where they can see us, and, with the way our kitchen is set up, there's no way for them to do that without being underfoot. At the same time, we want to be able to keep at least a vague eye on them, and that's not not really possible…

That's the unwritten rule of house parties. Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.

This seems to be quite universal (at least in western countries?). I witnessed it so many times but I never found the reason/psychological mechanism which lead to this. Any idea?

Re: The Case for Rooms

#154
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disadvantage of open kitchens is that while they look cool, the smells can invade your house. Have you tried grilling something on the stove? Unless you have a powerful smoke extractor (sorry, don't know what they are called in English) you'll smoke up your living room, which is always nasty. Closing the door (plus an average smoke extractor) will help a lot.

I see this comment all over. What are you people cooki g that you would not want to smell? Good cooking smells devine!

Fish sauce smells horrible when you first add it to a pan, curry paste and peppers release a bit of tear gas when heating up.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cook almost every day for my family. I would say that half the time I wish I had a closed floor plan, and half the time I'm glad I have an open one. Here's the deal. Sometimes I want my kids to stay out from under my feet when I'm cooking, and I want to just listen to my podcasts or whatever. Other times, especially when friends are over, I'm really glad I have an open plan kitchen.

Speaking as someone with a closed kitchen and small kids: the closed kitchen doesn't keep the kids out from under my feet while cooking unless my wife is home to watch them. Otherwise, they are under my feet because they want to be near me and talk to me and get my attention. I can't just close the kitchen door and ignore a toddler. This happens much more than in our previous open-kitchen apartment, because they coul…

Oh, yeah, that's to be expected. My kids invade the kitchen even when my wife is home, though. I feel like if I were out of sight that might happen less often. But maybe I'm wrong.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#156
post #148
post #104

This article is a train-wreck of a justification for, I assume, the author's own personal taste in interior design. It builds up a total straw man for why open concepts are terrible, built on ways in which almost none of us actually live. What are the justifications for why "open concept" floor plans in which the kitchen flows into the living area? * Open floor plans are an "acoustic nightmare". Try to imagine the ho…

That's an aggressive reading of that article. She lays out her argument, maybe makes a snarky comment here and there, but it's hardly a rant. Her argument flows pretty naturally imo. Identify a problem. Open concepts are a fad with bad externalities for its occupants and the environment. She points a wagging finger at the normies who bought into the fad, condescending only if you choose to read it that way, but reall…

The only real problem she identifies is "noise". (I'm not sure what the "bad externalities for the environment" you point to are). You trade the inconvenience of noise (noise when you don't want it) for the convenience of noise (ability to hear/see/be involved with what's going on outside of the kitchen). That's one unintended consequence (or was it intended?)

>She draws attention to the richer people escaping to their man caves and sculleries, they wouldn't need to do that if their house wasn't a cacophony of noise and smell to begin with.

I don't buy this. All homes have private spaces. Man caves would not go away if we all just closed off our kitchens. It implies that the "man cave" only exists because of the open concept, but for that to be true, it would have to mean that it's replacing the living room, which I think you can hardly conclude from the available evidence. When was an "enclosed" living room a paragon of privacy?

It seems so utterly bizarre to go from "combine kitchen and dining and living room" to "complete and total loss of privacy". Again, we still have private bedrooms and offices, those with more space in their homes have still more separate spaces.

There are implications here that we had to build bigger houses to replace the lost 'private' space, but I hardly see the evidence. The closed-off houses of yore, with their formal dining rooms and walled-off kitchens, were hardly tiny.

>The open floor plan coincides with the decline of cooking and the replacement of hosting with entertaining. Kitchens are fake anyway. Of the families who I know who actually cook meals, who host their friends and relatives as if they were honored guest to be waited upon, none of those prefer an open kitchen.

Again, thin. Plenty of folks have chimed in here who prefer an open concept, and plenty of folks who prefer a closed-off one. Like my own household, we cook every single night, and prefer the open space.

>It's a value shift in what it means to prepare meals, she prefers the old fashioned values, most people no longer do.

This is an unsupported conclusion. Again, it's a quasi-pejorative that making your own meals means you prefer a closed off kitchen. That's just not the case. Different people have different preferences, but this condescending attitude that real people who really cook hate all this new fangled nonsense is just not based in fact.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#157
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disadvantage of open kitchens is that while they look cool, the smells can invade your house. Have you tried grilling something on the stove? Unless you have a powerful smoke extractor (sorry, don't know what they are called in English) you'll smoke up your living room, which is always nasty. Closing the door (plus an average smoke extractor) will help a lot.

I see this comment all over. What are you people cooki g that you would not want to smell? Good cooking smells devine!

Steak smells awful in your hair, clothes and drapes. The smoke blackens everything.

Fish smells nice on the plate and awful everywhere else.

Broccoli, etc.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#158
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chopping vegetables, yes. But when the fire is on, or there's a frying pan, I wish everyone would leave the kitchen. I don't want to be responsible for any burns or accidents. Now that I think about it, when I'm holding a sharp knife I also want everyone away. My fear is that a chatty guest who's not paying attention will walk into the point of my knife (and yes, because of that fear I'm constantly worrying about whe…

Huh. I used to be 12 years old kid who was cooking his lunch and dinner while a 3 years old brother and 5 years old sister were in the room, with zero problems. Do you have a really tiny kitchen or what's the problem?

I wouldn't trust 12-year old me with a knife or a frying pan. And 40+ year old me has cut and burnt himself enough times. And I know of enough terrifying accidents to be wary.

Also, yes, those of us living in apartments often have small kitchens.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#159
post #143

After just spending two months working with an architect to design the remodel our 6,000 sf house, here are my observations. We like to entertain. We usually have people over for some kind of party at least every month. During parties, people gather in the kitchen (for some reason). So we try to encourage people to get out of the kitchen. Pathways are important. Every common area should have at least two pathways, an…

With a 6000 sf house, surely you have enough space to have both open and closed off parts of the house?

The private spaces are closed off, of course. But, the floor plan has a few large rooms, not many small rooms that could be closed off. One could do it that way, I presume.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#160

This really seems like an extended "stop liking what I don't like" rant. There are legitimate reasons to prefer either open or closed kitchens, and most of them come down to personal preference. Personally, I like being in open, airy spaces. It's got nothing to do with "entertaining." Also, this: > A large, single, continuous space is harder to get and keep clean. Messes and smells are no longer isolated, but can be…

The same author makes the case for criticism in this article https://thebaffler.com/kate-takes/dont-let-people-enjoy-thin...

That's kind of ironic, actually. Here she's telling us to be more tolerant of other people's preferences, but in the OP article, she's basically saying "my preference is objectively correct, and if you disagree you must not understand the situation."
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