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The Case for Rooms

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Re: The Case for Rooms

#111

Post by TomVDB »

mattnewton wrote: post #95

I found myself disagreeing with almost every point. Entertaining only happens a handful of times a year? What? Furthermore designing for it is wasteful? Why must it be? It’s an acoustic nightmare to have one big room that everyone can talk to in? Open floor plan housing makes smaller spaces feel larger by allowing all the rooms to be the living room or dining room as need be. It allows me to afford a place that feels…

While I love living in an open concept house, I totally agree with the points that you disagree with.

We don't have a lot of guests all that often, so I agree if "a handful of times" is "between 10 and 15 per year."

There is no question that open concept doesn't allow to heat or cool this room but not the other. It's all or nothing for us. That was totally different when I grew up.

Whatever happens in the kitchen, we can hear it perfectly on the other side of the house in our bedroom if we leave our bedroom door open. That would not be the case if we had some kitchen door somewhere in between. Similarly, when our daughter has friends over in the dining area or living area, we typically move to the bedroom because the family/TV room is too noisy then.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#112

Post by asteli »

saddestcatever wrote: post #98
bunderbunder wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You want them away from boiling water, dropped knives, and dangerously hot ovens. This sort of stuff is exactly why the separate kitchen doesn't work at our house. The kids want to be where they can see us, and, with the way our kitchen is set up, there's no way for them to do that without being underfoot. At the same time, we want to be able to keep at least a vague eye on them, and that's not not really possible…

That's the unwritten rule of house parties. Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.

I've seen this so many times. The introverts and smokers I can explain, but to this day I have no idea why people congregate in the kitchen even when there's nothing specific to draw them in there (food, etc.)

Re: The Case for Rooms

#113

Post by elipsey »

asteli wrote: post #112
saddestcatever wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the unwritten rule of house parties. Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.

I've seen this so many times. The introverts and smokers I can explain, but to this day I have no idea why people congregate in the kitchen even when there's nothing specific to draw them in there (food, etc.)

It's where the beer is.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#114

Post by woodpanel »

alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

I have moved at least 15 times by now and the more places I lived in and saw from others, the more I became convinced that open kitchens are the new schmalz of interior architecture that someday hopefully a new Bauhau-esque change of directions will eradicate.

Some points:

- I don't want the smell in my living room

- Kids: It's good to be able to keep them distanced if needed. If they want to participate in cooking, there's https://www.puckdaddy.de/de/entdeckerturm/

- It clutters the interior design as your living room is always going to offer you a view of used dishes, open food packaging and kitchen utilities (Dare I say it's anti-zen?)

- living room is unusable noise-wise, when open kitchen is in use

- I don't want my guest to see every faux pas that happens in the kitchen.

- Energy usage

That's the practical stuff where the open design falls short. But what annoys me philosophically about them is that there's this cultural delusion: that you're going to have a house party every time you eat. Or that people want to see me cooking, because I'm really good at it.

My experience is, that most open kitchen users just don't cook that much (and dine out instead), so they don't recognize the flaws. And they don't recognize that using "a lot less space" also means that you're probably getting less space sold in the first place. Both of these points illustrate how the open kitchen was something that affluents, especially younger ones were prone to. Just the right peer group to cheer the rest of society into believing that this is something desirable.

Cooking is not a chore, true, not just. But in reality it is a lot of times – and that's perfectly fine!

PS: That's of course subjective. Hopefully my counter position to yours is not taken as offensive.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#115

Post by themoat »

TomMarius wrote: post #89
the_af wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chopping vegetables, yes. But when the fire is on, or there's a frying pan, I wish everyone would leave the kitchen. I don't want to be responsible for any burns or accidents. Now that I think about it, when I'm holding a sharp knife I also want everyone away. My fear is that a chatty guest who's not paying attention will walk into the point of my knife (and yes, because of that fear I'm constantly worrying about whe…

Huh. I used to be 12 years old kid who was cooking his lunch and dinner while a 3 years old brother and 5 years old sister were in the room, with zero problems. Do you have a really tiny kitchen or what's the problem?

There are a lot of people talking in this thread about the dangers of cooking in a kitchen that make it sound like a cheesy infomercial...

"Scalding your loved ones? Tired of shutting the oven door on your cat? Isn't there a better way? Closed floor plans!"

I've got kids. My number one complaint about my house is that I am shut off from everyone when I try to cook.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#116

Post by DanFeldman »

asteli wrote: post #112
saddestcatever wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the unwritten rule of house parties. Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.

I've seen this so many times. The introverts and smokers I can explain, but to this day I have no idea why people congregate in the kitchen even when there's nothing specific to draw them in there (food, etc.)

There's just something enticing about watching home-cooking. It's better than any TV you've ever seen. If your subject is a better cook than you or has a much larger range of recipe comfort, watching their technique or process is really eye-opening. I love seeing what my friends do or don't do in the kitchen, always something to learn about.

It smells amazing too being near the action. Sight + smell getting stimulated all at once.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#117

Post by dkarl »

alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

I agree; an open kitchen caters to the pleasure of cooking alone, or at most with family and close friends you don't being less than elegant in front of, not the pressure of entertaining.

I think there's an element of class-based bravado in many modern houses. Huge windows without curtains, open floor plans, these send a message that your life doesn't have any mess that you need to hide from the world. You can live every aspect of your life in perfect comfort without giving a thought to who is watching, because all they would see is how elegant and attractive your life is.

There's also an elevation of the social and a deprecation of individual activity. The author points out that it's hell to try to read or watch a movie while someone is using a food processor twenty feet away, but that scenario is not part of the perfect showroom lifestyle. In the ideal life, people within earshot of each other are engaged in sparkling conversation. Solitude can perhaps be engaged in stylishly, but two people not speaking to each other because they're each absorbed in their own thing is a bit gross, or at the very least, less than perfect, and therefore it's not properly aspirational to ask your home to cater to it.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#118

Post by Rychard »

asteli wrote: post #112
saddestcatever wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the unwritten rule of house parties. Unless something absolutely amazing is happening in the living room, the smokers will be out back, a pair of introverts will be in the hallway, and everyone else will slowly gravitate towards the kitchen until everyone is in the way.

I've seen this so many times. The introverts and smokers I can explain, but to this day I have no idea why people congregate in the kitchen even when there's nothing specific to draw them in there (food, etc.)

In nearly every other room of the house, you're meant to sit down. The kitchen is optimized for walking between appliances.

When the available seating is exhausted in the living room, it feels a bit strange to remain standing if everyone else is sitting, so you excuse yourself to the kitchen for another drink, where you find a number of other people standing and conversing. This feels less strange, so you don't see much point in going back to the living room.

Once everyone has made the inevitable trip to the kitchen to freshen up their beverage, and gets caught up in a conversation in the kitchen, the living room gradually becomes empty, and at that point, nobody wants to go sit alone in the living room and miss all the action happening in the kitchen.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#119

Post by duxup »

humanrebar wrote: post #63
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

> I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. When you have small kids: - You want them away from boiling water, dropped knives, and dangerously hot ovens. - You want them to keep sleeping even though you're vacuuming - You might want to let them watch Baby Shark for the 1000th blasted time while leaving you out of it - You might want to read a novel while they ho…

I have kids and an open living and kitchen area.

For all the reasons you listed I want it open so I can keep an eye on the kids.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#120

Post by poisonarena »

alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

living in a goshiwon in korea, and a japanese sharehouse, I went from having this attitude, to being horrified that I would have to interact with people and have to wait and stand there idly while pretending to check my cellphone or something waiting for them to be finished. Maybe it was the culture but I just went from being so friendly to so awkward.

To the point that I would be aware of footsteps and time my exits so that I would not have to interact with other room dwellers.. It didnt feel like that in college dorms

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