Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#301

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

Afforess wrote: post #134

shanusmagnus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "losing the popular vote" narrative would be a lot more compelling (at least to me) if the elections were less close. It looks bad to win the Presidency and lose the popular vote, but I don't think it actually matters. In a nation of 300 something million, close enough to half want either candidate. The problems lie elsewhere. (The fact that I can say "either candidate" is part of it.) [Edit: I should have said…

So many problems with this. 1. 300 million people are not registered voters. ~50-60 million are. 2. First Past The Post means people are voting for the candidate they hate the least, not the candidate they prefer. 3. The election wasn't very close. 2 million votes more for 1 of the candidates in 2016. 4. The electoral college "matters" in that without it, the Iraq war wouldn't have happened, nor Trump. Saying it's th…

> 1. 300 million people are not registered voters. ~50-60 million are.

The 2016 popular vote total was over 130 million [0]; registration appears to have been somewhere between 157 million and 191 million. [1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidentia...

[1] https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/cps/tables/p20/580/...

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#302

Post by opportune » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #191

ranie93 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the OP, and they may be overstating statistics (happy to be shown otherwise). At the same time, wage stagnation is no myth: "From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as we…

The productivity and wage decoupling is very hot debate topic in the economic circles. It's not very easy to sum it up, as there are many factors going in. For example, productivity is calculated based on real GDP, which uses GDP deflator, while deflator for real wages that is typically used is CPI. Just the fact that you're using two different deflators already makes a meaningful comparison harder. Looking at minimu…

Only about 2% of workers may earn minimum wage, but the minimum wage serves as a kind of anchor that other very-low pay jobs base their pay on. Many major national fast food chains (for example) pay like $8/hr which isn't technically minimum wage but is essentially the same, because if the minimum wage were $5/hr these jobs would probably similarly pay $6/hr or therabouts

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#303

Post by fullshark » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

ryanmcbride wrote: post #219

mlcrypto wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly how it was intended. This is a democratic republic. Both sides knew the rules of the 2016 election. Hillary knew the goal was the electoral college but she failed to campaign in the battleground mid west states. This is like complaining that the soccer team with the most possession or shots on target still lost the game.

Just because it's "the rules" doesn't mean its something people have to just sit down and accept. Every constitutional amendment has redefined "the rules", and drawing a bunch of lines on a map and ignoring a vote delta of 3 million people is in my opinion, a rule that is directly counter to a democracy, and should be criticized and amended.

As you say, democrats have two options:

1. Amend the constitution (never happening) 2. Come up with a platform appealing to a large enough coalition of states

Whining about it gets them nowhere and their only real option is 2.

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#304

Post by rgbrenner » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

oldjokes wrote: post #194

ranie93 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the OP, and they may be overstating statistics (happy to be shown otherwise). At the same time, wage stagnation is no myth: "From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as we…

The really weird thing about wage stagnation is that there are millions of jobs going unfilled, companies are so desperate for people that they can't find anyone and are just dumping cash into stock buybacks instead of raising wages. Something is fundamentally broken in the labor market, it is not responding to supply & demand forces as it has in the past. I am not sure what terminology to use to describe what's goin…

I suspect the federal reserve plays a part in this too. They started targeting 2% inflation about the same time wages started to stagnate.

When the labor market starts to tighten, they consider it full employment.. and if it starts to increase wages, it counts against their inflation target... and to counter both points, they start taking actions to cool the market.

And the "full employment" isn't even really full employment.. since it doesn't include people who have excluded themselves from the labor market. A lot of those people have difficulty for one reason or another entering the market, but they will if employers are willing to train, pay more, etc... and employers will only do that in a tight labor market.

So it seems like when the labor market enters a period where it may address some real problems (wage stagnation, structural issues in the labor market, etc)... the fed jumps in to cool the market off.

To be clear, I think the inflation target is a good thing... but I think it's perhaps too broad of an indicator.. and maybe we need a more nuanced target.

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#305

Post by asdff » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #2

One thing I'm pessimistic about is this pigeonholing thing regarding to one's role in a job. I'm a programmer and therefore I can only program. Or so it seems. People don't take me seriously at entry level positions of: - Consultant - UX Designer - Data Scientist - Marketing (analytics) I wish people would at least interview me on it. They'd be surprised what I know and am able to do. One person made it obviously cle…

At least with programming you can work on side projects that touch all of these other positions responsibilities. Your Github can become your proof of work, not a lot of fields have that beyond whatever a reference says.

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#306

Post by opportune » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #142

rukittenme wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not accounting for the higher interest rates of the 1980s. Which home would you prefer to buy: $150,000 at 15% over 30 years. $350,000 at 4% over 30 years. Hint : they both have approximately the same total loan cost and payment. You can do this calculation with your parents. My home cost $350k at 3.8%. My parents bought my childhood home for $88k at 8%. Adjust my parents' home price for inflation and run the…

The hitch in this whole thing is that down payments have gotten ridiculous, it's gotten harder to save in desirable areas because rents and many expenses have grown out of pace with income for normal folks. Even as the percentage necessary for down payments has dropped, house prices have gone into orbit so much that it hasn't kept parity. My girlfriend and I had to buy a house for $520k, at 5% down, just for the priv…

Do you mean you spent $520k for a 5% down payment? Why should anybody feel sorry for someone who is buying a $10m house? Even for bay area standards that's on the very high end and not at all representative of any meaningful fraction of people in the US

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#307

Post by caconym_ » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

djakjxnanjak wrote: post #231

caconym_ wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "work ethic" pisses me off because it codes this idea that I should be a hard worker , which of course (because we live in the world we live in) refers to me busting my ass for somebody else's benefit. Anyone who wants to criticize my work ethic can go and fuck themselves. I work incredibly hard, but at my job ^[1] I do as little work as I can get away with (while retaining the standing I need to be comfor…

I think a more reasonable attitude is that it’s usually possible to improve your material wealth with effort, and people can decide to make the trade-off if they think it’s worth it. This is not a value judgement.

> This is not a value judgement.

Where "this" is the term "work ethic"? For you, maybe not, but for others it is certainly used to articulate a value judgment, hence my dislike of the term. I don't think it's precise or accurate enough to avoid being used in this negatively loaded way.

I agree that "it’s usually possible to improve your material wealth with effort, and people can decide to make the trade-off if they think it’s worth it." That is exactly the sort of trade-off I claim to be making, with the additional note that it's a continuum rather than an either/or choice.

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#308

Post by xyzzyz » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

jraby3 wrote: post #273

ranie93 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the OP, and they may be overstating statistics (happy to be shown otherwise). At the same time, wage stagnation is no myth: "From 1973 to 2013, hourly compensation of a typical (production/nonsupervisory) worker rose just 9 percent while productivity increased 74 percent. This breakdown of pay growth has been especially evident in the last decade, affecting both college- and non-college-educated workers as we…

That’s widely quoted but turns out to be incorrect. https://twitter.com/jmhorp/status/1125468274995675138

This is interesting, and I started clicking through some of these threads, but Twitter is just such a terrible format for it that I soon gave up.

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#309

Post by fma » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

Ancalagon wrote: post #212

oldjokes wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really weird thing about wage stagnation is that there are millions of jobs going unfilled, companies are so desperate for people that they can't find anyone and are just dumping cash into stock buybacks instead of raising wages. Something is fundamentally broken in the labor market, it is not responding to supply & demand forces as it has in the past. I am not sure what terminology to use to describe what's goin…

Actually I would argue companies just don't want to pay the wages that Americans would expect for the labor. Raise the pay, you'll see those positions get more qualified candidates and then they will be filled.

Anecdote...I had a random chat with a hiring manager and he commented he can't hire the right developers. Developers think too highly of themselves and ask for too much money...I had no sympathy for him.

Re: Millennials and Gen Z Increasingly Pessimistic About Their Lives, Survey Finds

#310

Post by makerofspoons » Mon, May 20, 2019, 9:16 PM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #49

makerofspoons wrote: post #30

"Climate change, protecting the environment and natural disasters topped the list of most respondents on a personal level, but less than three in ten of both the Millennial and Gen Z cohorts cited it as a worry." This is surprising. As a Gen Z-er this highlights the kind of bubble I find myself in- my friend group is almost universally in a state of despair about the collapsing biosphere. Climate change and mass exti…

Are you sure? Does the climate change affect your personal life more than inability to afford reasonable real estate or kid-related expenses off most today's salaries?

I live in a low COL city, so most of my friends and myself are doing pretty well. Most of us, also including myself, are not planning on having children due to pessimism about the latter half of this century so child-rearing costs aren't really a concern.