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The Case for Rooms

citylab.com

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Re: The Case for Rooms

#51

Post by matwood »

jpm_sd wrote: post #14

The historical context portion of the article is interesting and well written, but the critique of the open-concept layout at the end seemed rushed and unconvincing. Anyone here who lives in a modern open-concept house care to comment? I currently live with my wife, 3 children and 2 dogs in a 1200 square foot split level and we all dream of a big open-concept house some day... but apparently some people are getting t…

I live in a mostly open concept. You walk in the front door and have a large area living, dining, and kitchen. A couple rooms/small hallway on one side and master on the other. I think it's great. I can cook and clean and still hold a conversation or casually watch whatever is on TV at the same time. When people come over there is enough space for everyone to be in the same space.

Appliances like dishwashers are very quiet now, so running them is not an issue. And in general, when I cook I'm not banging pots and pans the whole time.

Walling off rooms would make me want to cook less since it would be imposed separation from everything else going on.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#52

Post by PhasmaFelis »

adrianmonk wrote: post #21
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

Open floor plans make better and worse use of space. One space can serve many functions, so that's a gain. But when you eliminate a wall, you eliminate a place to put bookcases and such. One of the rules in making the most of a small space is "go vertical". Walls help you do that. So that's a loss for open plans.

You can put up shelves in the middle of an open space. I've done that before to divide a finished basement room into "office" and "bedroom" sections. I'm a big fan of double-sided shelves like the Ikea Expedit/Kallax lines, but anything will do.

Open space gives you the option of dividing it up as you like. A fixed wall makes the decision for you.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#53

Post by athenot »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #42
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

> I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Exactly my thoughts reading this. I would guess this author does not cook. Or has not done so in a closed isolating kitchen while family or friends chat happily just around a wall out of earshot.

> I would guess this author does not cook.

I believe you are correct:

Nothing is more maddening than trying to read or watch television in the tall-ceilinged living room with someone banging pots and pans or using the food processor 10 feet away in the open kitchen.

I was scratching my head while reading the article because my wife and I are looking to do the opposite and tear down the wall between the kitchen and the dining room. I happen to be the cook and for the same reasons as the GP, I enjoy being able to talk and converse while I'm cooking. I'm not interested in so-called "chef kitchens" to impress people, however I've put a lot of thought into optimizing the space I have. Small is good when there's only 1 cook. But that's a separate issue from the socializing aspect while cooking.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#54

Post by taurath »

irrational wrote: post #46
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

>I want to cook for an hour without being alone. I'm the opposite. Nothing drives me up the wall more than people trying to talk to me when I'm trying to work, whether on a computer coding or in the kitchen cooking/baking. I can't concentrate at all when someone tries to talk to me. I can communicate, or I can cook/code, but I can't do both at the same time.

Cooking has always been a social thing to me - chopping vegetables for 20 minutes is a lot nicer when you have someone to talk to.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#55

Post by athenot »

djsumdog wrote: post #45
alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

I once lived in a Tri-level with a very large and open kitchen. I also lived in a house with very big main rooms but a tiny kitchen. The trouble is everyone congergrates in the kitchen! That's fine if it's nice and wide and has plenty of counter space, but awful if it's really tiny and the only means between the living room and the patio where your other friend is grilling. I agree with other comments on how a dining…

The rule of thumb is that people congregate where the food is. Since the food is usually made in the kitchen, that becomes the default location.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#56

Post by rdtsc »

I have seen the tension between open separated spaces with my family. My parents come from a place and time when having lots of little rooms, with doors that you can open close is a great advantage.

My wife and I like open floor plans. The kitchen opens into the living room and into the dining room. When my parents visit, my mom often remarks how she would really like to close the (non-existent) door to the kitchen, so she can cook in peace and not make loud noises and smell up the whole house. And we keep trying to tell her that we like to watch and help her cook, see steaming pot of soup or the frying pan going and whatnot. It's a silly conversation we have, we even joke about it, but I found it relevant with the article at hand.

> the kitchen, no longer a place of shame and no longer reliant upon the ventilation provided by the kitchen door

Yes. I think that is to some extent how my mom views that space. It's a dirty, place that you want isolate, do your work in there, and then come out and serve everyone the food in the dining room.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#57

Post by appleiigs »

jpm_sd wrote: post #14

The historical context portion of the article is interesting and well written, but the critique of the open-concept layout at the end seemed rushed and unconvincing. Anyone here who lives in a modern open-concept house care to comment? I currently live with my wife, 3 children and 2 dogs in a 1200 square foot split level and we all dream of a big open-concept house some day... but apparently some people are getting t…

I had a condo that was 1200 sqft. but it was 2 floors, each floor being 600 sqft. The bottom was open: kitchen, dining, living room. The top floor had a bathroom, laundry and small bedrooms. It really worked well. With the downstairs being one room with 600 sqft. wide open it felt large and spacious, sociable. Upstairs was more functional (as in you didn't spend much time there) but also made it cozy enough to retreat or read if you wanted. EDIT: having large window and minimalist furniture helps.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#58

Post by cleandreams »

I live in a old Victorian with small rooms and solid wood doors. This was fantastic when my son was growing up and when my wife was alive. Her tv watching noise did not take over the house; no one's did. It was great. One room is big, the dining room, where we all gathered. The kitchen was nice size too. I have to really appreciate this floor plan, plus the solid wood doors. I am noise sensitive.

Re: The Case for Rooms

#59

Post by dvtrn »

taurath wrote: post #54
irrational wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I want to cook for an hour without being alone. I'm the opposite. Nothing drives me up the wall more than people trying to talk to me when I'm trying to work, whether on a computer coding or in the kitchen cooking/baking. I can't concentrate at all when someone tries to talk to me. I can communicate, or I can cook/code, but I can't do both at the same time.

Cooking has always been a social thing to me - chopping vegetables for 20 minutes is a lot nicer when you have someone to talk to.

Eating for me is absolutely social, cooking, I wont say --like others, I like to be left alone in the kitchen, because I enjoy having someone there to banter with while I'm whisking the hollandaise but at the same time there's only so much "ope[1], lemme just reach around ya for the cayenne...ope, sorry lemme get by ya...ope watch the burner there, ope, ope" before having someone in the kitchen with you starts getting in the way.

But to each their own

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[1] HN is a big crowd, so if the "ope" thing confused anyone reading this, behold: https://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/May-2018/Ope-The-All-Pu...

Re: The Case for Rooms

#60

Post by the_af »

alkonaut wrote: post #7

The open (Kitchen) floor plan to me represents the idea that cooking isn’t a chore separate from eating and socializing. I want to cook for an hour without being alone. Privacy in the kitchen would never be desireable. “Entertaining” doesn’t require guests. There is also a matter of space. A shared living/dining/cooking space can use a lot less space than three separate rooms. I couldn’t afford the separate solution…

A disadvantage of open kitchens is that while they look cool, the smells can invade your house. Have you tried grilling something on the stove? Unless you have a powerful smoke extractor (sorry, don't know what they are called in English) you'll smoke up your living room, which is always nasty. Closing the door (plus an average smoke extractor) will help a lot.
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