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60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

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Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#41

Post by vkou »

dghughes wrote: post #36
bjourne wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ugh. This is predictable in the age of guilty til proven innocent isn't it? When an accusation is enough to tank a career then yes people are going to feel the need to protect themselves by removing any possibility of that happening. When has one accusation been enough to tank a person's career? Do you have an example? Of one accusation - not several dozen accusations from several dozen parties spread out over a pe…

The two guys joked to themselves about dongles at a conference when a woman (not part of the conversation) took offense and tweeted about it in real time. The men were escorted out and both lost their jobs. https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spirale... And not quite related but somewhat. Here in Canada a man named Lorne Grabher has had a custom license plate GRABHER lost it due to a single complaint…

That's not an isolated accusation of something inappropriate that happened behind closed doors. That's a verified (By all parties involved) example of unprofessional behavior in a professional, public space.

When you attend a conference with a laptop plastered with corporate stickers, you represent your employer. Try to act like a professional, when you do so.

And you're seriously grasping at straws with that second link.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#42

Post by vkou »

hansflying wrote: post #18
vkou wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An unsubstantiated accusation is not enough to tank a career. A cross-correlated one, from multiple independent reports is another story. As is one that stands up to cross-examination and scrutiny. Reporting harassment by your manager is just as likely, if not moreso to shit on your career, as it is on theirs. They have all the power in this relationship, and every opportunity to retaliate if you aren't believed.

Man’s life ‘destroyed’ following classmate’s false rape allegation: https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/mans-life-destro...

And every year, the stars align, and some single-digit number of people get eaten by sharks.

That doesn't mean that 'getting eaten by sharks' is something you should be particularly worried about.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#43

Post by commandlinefan »

vkou wrote: post #3
erentz wrote: post #2

Ugh. This is predictable in the age of guilty til proven innocent isn't it? When an accusation is enough to tank a career then yes people are going to feel the need to protect themselves by removing any possibility of that happening. And rather than trying to approach the problem constructively, the article takes a strong tone throughout that puts the blame on men: > That means the many, many women in this world who…

An unsubstantiated accusation is not enough to tank a career. A cross-correlated one, from multiple independent reports is another story. As is one that stands up to cross-examination and scrutiny. Reporting harassment by your manager is just as likely, if not moreso to shit on your career, as it is on theirs. They have all the power in this relationship, and every opportunity to retaliate if you aren't believed.

There's actually a whole book about this: https://www.amazon.com/How-Destroy-Man-Now-DAMN/dp/099982032...

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#44

Post by commandlinefan »

pwinnski wrote: post #29

These comments are already a toxic hellstew of nasty sexism couched in dispassionate pseudo-objective terms. HN reminds me regularly that the problem is even worse (at least in some corners of tech) than occasional links here suggest. If your response to an article is to double-down on sexism, you are very much part of the problem. For everyone else, working for and with women, or having women work for and with you,…

> they probably won't be

That probably isn't very reassuring... and explains exactly why so many men are worried.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#45

Post by commandlinefan »

jacquesm wrote: post #14
0x262d wrote: post #4

this is absurd. these people are reactionaries. they should know that false accusations almost never happen and if they act in good faith they'll be fine. instead they're going to professionally penalize women. classic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape For something as serious as rape it's 2% to 10%, for something less serious it would likely be higher.

> 2% to 10%

That’s just accusations that make it to court, too - the numbers that are settled behind closed doors are surely far higher.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#46

Post by derp_le_herp »

brudgers wrote: post #9

This is a case for more women managers.

So false accusations ruining things for managers means we need more women managers, instead of...you know, selecting managers based on competence and technical ability first and foremost? Maybe instead of doubling down on the type of rhetoric and leftist nonsense that caused this problem in the first place we should strive for a more meritocratic society in general.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#47

Post by bjourne »

dghughes wrote: post #36
bjourne wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ugh. This is predictable in the age of guilty til proven innocent isn't it? When an accusation is enough to tank a career then yes people are going to feel the need to protect themselves by removing any possibility of that happening. When has one accusation been enough to tank a person's career? Do you have an example? Of one accusation - not several dozen accusations from several dozen parties spread out over a pe…

The two guys joked to themselves about dongles at a conference when a woman (not part of the conversation) took offense and tweeted about it in real time. The men were escorted out and both lost their jobs. https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/21/a-dongle-joke-that-spirale... And not quite related but somewhat. Here in Canada a man named Lorne Grabher has had a custom license plate GRABHER lost it due to a single complaint…

Your examples aren't related. The first is about a joke and the second about a license plate. In neither case was it it the ACCUSATION that ruined careers.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#49

Post by eigenstuff »

viklove wrote: post #39
pwinnski wrote: post #29

These comments are already a toxic hellstew of nasty sexism couched in dispassionate pseudo-objective terms. HN reminds me regularly that the problem is even worse (at least in some corners of tech) than occasional links here suggest. If your response to an article is to double-down on sexism, you are very much part of the problem. For everyone else, working for and with women, or having women work for and with you,…

I find it ironic how your comment complaining about sexism is incredibly sexist

As a woman: no, this comments section is a sexist dumpster fire of the usual "but false accusations!" variety that paints women as generally being out to get men, because... Who knows! I still haven't figured out what our motivation is for all the alleged false accusations we apparently enjoy making, and I'm pretty sure in reality we all just want to live our lives and mind our own business. But also, you know, have some protection or recourse if some co-worker thinks it's cute to grope us or make gross comments about our boobs or something.

I enjoy reading HN, but it absolutely has a sexism problem and it shows everytime an article about something like this is posted. You know how to not get "falsely" accused of harassment? Don't be a creep and don't treat your woman collegues as being lesser-than. Really not that hard. I promise.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#50

Post by hirundo »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #19
life_is_shor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it still be sexist if I can demonstrate it?

Possibly, though I have to admit I'm morbidly curious about what you're referring to.

Possibly the poster is over extrapolating the finding that women self-report higher levels of neuroticism than males. It's not clear to me that 1) self reporting is a reliable measure, 2) higher neuroticism implies higher paranoia or lower objectivity or 3) higher neuroticism is necessarily a negative trait.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11519935

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