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Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

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Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#11

Post by seanmcdirmid »

baybal2 wrote: post #7

Had a conversation recently about all that. People ask if the industry will wrap up and move from China. I ask them in response: where would they run away to? Vietnam? Vietnam's entire light industry output is like of one Dongguan's district. India has a lot of workforce, tons of it, but the entire light industry ecosystem has to be built from scratch, or brought along with you. They can't run away.

If negative pressure is sustained long enough, alternatives will be developed. How long has China held a dominant position in electronics assembly? Less than 20 years...and that would be generous.

So things can change, definitely not overnight, but in a few years.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#12

Post by zhongjiewu »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11
baybal2 wrote: post #7

Had a conversation recently about all that. People ask if the industry will wrap up and move from China. I ask them in response: where would they run away to? Vietnam? Vietnam's entire light industry output is like of one Dongguan's district. India has a lot of workforce, tons of it, but the entire light industry ecosystem has to be built from scratch, or brought along with you. They can't run away.

If negative pressure is sustained long enough, alternatives will be developed. How long has China held a dominant position in electronics assembly? Less than 20 years...and that would be generous. So things can change, definitely not overnight, but in a few years.

I agree, if there is a region with the labor force and good policy for investment plus infra and a few other things. Vietnam is a close enough option, but other options are not abundant, so more than just a few years would be a plausible answer for me.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#13

Post by zhongjiewu »

perfunctory wrote: post #5

Framing detector is on. I have an issue with the word "forced". Nobody is forcing you with a gun to your head. Don't want to be "forced" - don't go do business in China.

Ironically, there are aircraft carriers moving around the oceans forcing some countries regarding some agenda.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#14

Post by StavrosK »

zhongjiewu wrote: post #13
perfunctory wrote: post #5

Framing detector is on. I have an issue with the word "forced". Nobody is forcing you with a gun to your head. Don't want to be "forced" - don't go do business in China.

Ironically, there are aircraft carriers moving around the oceans forcing some countries regarding some agenda.

With a literal gun to a figurative head.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#15

Post by mrep »

quotz wrote: post #4
godzillabrennus wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It removes much of the incentive to build new tech if you have to turn it over and let someone steal it. I wouldn’t go into China with any proprietary tech as a foreigner.

EU and US should form a committee or even a court regarding China IP theft and should pursue act on this with full fury

Or we should just tell China that if huawei wants to sell their 5g tech over here, they need to force tech transfer the 5g tech over to us to do so.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#16

Post by baybal2 »

zhongjiewu wrote: post #12
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If negative pressure is sustained long enough, alternatives will be developed. How long has China held a dominant position in electronics assembly? Less than 20 years...and that would be generous. So things can change, definitely not overnight, but in a few years.

I agree, if there is a region with the labor force and good policy for investment plus infra and a few other things. Vietnam is a close enough option, but other options are not abundant, so more than just a few years would be a plausible answer for me.

China for long was a phenomenal combination of size, quality, and a price for workforce you can't find anywhere.

Eastern Europe - mass higher education check, everything else no

India - size yes, but nothing else, and there is "license raj" on top of that. One sweetener is the future domestic market appeal

Vietnam - mini-China, good primary and vocational education check, size OK, industry, some leftovers from pre-privatisation era, check - pretty much same as China was in that regard.

Pakistan... very cheap for sure, existing industry is nonexistent, (though Pakistan once had a backend FAB in late eighties!) and with Rupee hitting the bottom now, you can overlook how poor the logistics will be.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#17

Post by ptah »

amluto wrote: post #2

I frequently think that the China is not actually the bad guy here. To me, tech transfer sounds like a good business practice. If I were going to spend billions of dollars buying something, I would seriously consider demanding the IP and know-how to make more of it myself in the future. That way I would have some assurance that my purchase wouldn’t become unsupported and this worthless and that I won’t get price-gaug…

yes it makes sense for countries to do this to avoid getting raided by foreign companies that have them over a barrel

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#18

Post by wil421 »

mrep wrote: post #15
quotz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and US should form a committee or even a court regarding China IP theft and should pursue act on this with full fury

Or we should just tell China that if huawei wants to sell their 5g tech over here, they need to force tech transfer the 5g tech over to us to do so.

No you can’t do that. The US and EU do not agree with this type of governance. It would set a bad precedence.

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#19

Post by chvid »

zhongjiewu wrote: post #13
perfunctory wrote: post #5

Framing detector is on. I have an issue with the word "forced". Nobody is forcing you with a gun to your head. Don't want to be "forced" - don't go do business in China.

Ironically, there are aircraft carriers moving around the oceans forcing some countries regarding some agenda.

There exercising their "freedom of navigation".

Re: Forced Tech Transfers Are on the Rise in China, European Firms Say

#20

Post by taiwanboy »

baybal2 wrote: post #8

I remind you, developed WTO member countries are obliged to facilitate technology transfers to lesser developed countries by WTO charter. It might be a surprise to most HN readers, but that clause was put in WTO charter by... USA

Yes and when China signed up for WTO they also promised to fully open their markets up. And no state support for their firms.
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