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60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

fastcompany.com

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Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#21

Post by sct202 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #13

> That means the many, many women in this world who are just trying to do their jobs and make progress in their careers are being stymied by men who are terrified of being, I dunno, unable to control themselves while talking to a woman in the conference room. I realize this is a bad situation here, but this is an incredibly uncharitable take. Yes, that is probably true for some men, but others are probably worried ab…

It seems kind of like how male teachers are often vigilant about being too friendly or nurturing in case it looks like grooming.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#22

Post by bjourne »

erentz wrote: post #2

Ugh. This is predictable in the age of guilty til proven innocent isn't it? When an accusation is enough to tank a career then yes people are going to feel the need to protect themselves by removing any possibility of that happening. And rather than trying to approach the problem constructively, the article takes a strong tone throughout that puts the blame on men: > That means the many, many women in this world who…

> Ugh. This is predictable in the age of guilty til proven innocent isn't it? When an accusation is enough to tank a career then yes people are going to feel the need to protect themselves by removing any possibility of that happening.

When has one accusation been enough to tank a person's career? Do you have an example? Of one accusation - not several dozen accusations from several dozen parties spread out over a period of decades.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#23

Post by mfatica »

life_is_shor wrote: post #6

Complicated to be around a group of people that has so strong opinions about what it is to be a "real man", and that they think they deserve so more money and respect than the market (and the consumer) is willing to pay.

Complicated to be around a group of people that has so strong opinions about "the patriarchy", and they think every man is evil and out to harm them and will not hesitate to make false allegations to ruin someone's career.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#24

Post by TulliusCicero »

atomical wrote: post #20
weberc2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it merely "uncharitable" and not "overtly bad faith" is a very charitable interpretation on your part. :)

The words "Bad faith" are such a cop out lately. Everyone is using it because they think it is a clear way to win an argument fast. What do you mean when using it?

In this case I think it's appropriate. There's been a 32% increase in this attitude since last year. Do you really think the author of the article believes that 32% more men can't control themselves around women than last year?

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#25

Post by mattmcknight »

atomical wrote: post #20
weberc2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it merely "uncharitable" and not "overtly bad faith" is a very charitable interpretation on your part. :)

The words "Bad faith" are such a cop out lately. Everyone is using it because they think it is a clear way to win an argument fast. What do you mean when using it?

Intentional misrepresentation of another's view.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#26

Post by mfatica »

0x262d wrote: post #4

this is absurd. these people are reactionaries. they should know that false accusations almost never happen and if they act in good faith they'll be fine. instead they're going to professionally penalize women. classic.

Almost never happen so much that someone wrote a handbook on how to successfully bring up false accusations https://www.amazon.com/How-Destroy-Man-Now-DAMN/dp/099982032...

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#27

Post by elil17 »

I think if a male manager doesn’t feel comfortable having a one on one meeting with a female employee, so be it, but then he has to be consistent and not have one on one meetings with any of his employees. If a guys gonna watch his back at the expense of getting work done, he has to do so in a way that treats everyone equally

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#28

Post by htkibar »

vkou wrote: post #3
erentz wrote: post #2

Ugh. This is predictable in the age of guilty til proven innocent isn't it? When an accusation is enough to tank a career then yes people are going to feel the need to protect themselves by removing any possibility of that happening. And rather than trying to approach the problem constructively, the article takes a strong tone throughout that puts the blame on men: > That means the many, many women in this world who…

An unsubstantiated accusation is not enough to tank a career. A cross-correlated one, from multiple independent reports is another story. As is one that stands up to cross-examination and scrutiny. Reporting harassment by your manager is just as likely, if not moreso to shit on your career, as it is on theirs. They have all the power in this relationship, and every opportunity to retaliate if you aren't believed.

All you need is a popular tweet.

Re: 60% of male managers are “uncomfortable” working around women

#29

Post by pwinnski »

These comments are already a toxic hellstew of nasty sexism couched in dispassionate pseudo-objective terms. HN reminds me regularly that the problem is even worse (at least in some corners of tech) than occasional links here suggest.

If your response to an article is to double-down on sexism, you are very much part of the problem.

For everyone else, working for and with women, or having women work for and with you, doesn't have to be scary at all. Just don't be awful, and they probably won't be either. Since you work in tech, presumably, or you wouldn't be here, try thinking of all of your colleagues as "people" instead of "men and women." It's not like it should matter in this field.

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