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City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

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Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#171
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Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If killing is justified by an evidence-based predictive model, it's probably killing in the name of science. This would include the Vietnam war ("Domino theory"), the atomic bombings of Japan ("it will be less costly than invading"), and anti terrorist drone bombing ("they fit our proven terrorist heuristic")

I don't follow that line of reasoning at all. "Killing in the name of religion" would be to protect or spread some sort of metaphysical belief. The equivalent would be something like going to war with another country to build universities there.

Contrasting "scientism" as faith in "science" vs "science" as an evidence based process of ascertaining how the world works, you're probably describing "killing in the name of scientism" which is effectively religion insofar as it is a matter of faith.

E.g. faith that building universities and education makes people behave in a "sciencey" manner

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#173
post #60
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not my experience with rural areas at all. Instead, it's usually pretty noisy because of all the neighbors with barking dogs (yes, there are neighbors in rural areas; most people can't afford 40 acres all to themselves, so they live in little clusters), and it stinks because of the cow and horse manure. Just hope you're not located close to a pig farm. And of course there's all the noisy trucks everyone drives…

Thank you so much for making the counterpoint. I grew up in a rural setting and would give just about anything to take back that loss of years of my life. A few extras: * You can't exercise, because dogs don't just bark but also chase you, and no one cares or thinks you're the asshole for complaining because you're in the country. * Daily life is /very/ stressful. Forgot milk? Well, fuck you, buddy, because you're ei…

This must be a US rural view (and indeed sounds like crap); I have lived in rural areas most of my life in different countries, currently deep in the mountains of Spain and these things are really not a concern. I have lived for a few years in large, dense cities in different countries as well, latest being HK.

Sure you cannot ‘order a pizza’ or anything else in this countryside (sometimes someone new moves in a few km down on another mountain who starts out delivering something, like pizza, but gives up pretty quickly), I can bake one in my homemade woodoven though, with friends who I met here and sound very different from the ones you met over there too.

If dogs attack you, they are not removed over there? They are here which is why that hardly ever happens. There have been none such incidents here for many years.

Radio beamed internet (point to point) is cheap and streams Netflix, Video conferencing etc fine and now everywhere is cheap unlimited 4g, so I can hike in the forest and take a rest with a funny cat video.

Water and electra are cheap and enough space to put solar for hot water and electric: waste is collected at waste points.

The only thing is that the ambulance comes late indeed, but you can have a chopper (for free) and the healthcare is excellent here (and free); but I would imagine a solid heartattack would kill me here, but it does so in most places, just here it is more sure. But in return for that I have clean air, a ton of space, and, opposite of your experience, far less stress; it is Spain, nothing is in a hurry here which is great once you accept it. Probably will save you a few strokes in the end. Everything is cheap over here as well, my neighbors live of 500 euros a month, something that can be picked up doing a few hours per month of coding for a city client while sitting in the garden.

The thrash also rings no bells and mobile homes are not normal (or even allowed long term), cars have to pay road tax even if they cannot drive until they are scrapped at an official scrapyard, so people have them destroyed etc.

I guess this really depends on the country; things like rural HK, Shanghai, Thailand (ChiangMai), France, Germany or the parts of rural Australia or New Zealand I have been for longer stretches are also not as you describe at all.

Also, a lot of people, including me, who grew up in rural areas, hate them after they leave for university etc but later in life start to long for them again in my experience.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#174
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you are joking. Or are you seriously trying to say that you have more choices because you are living in a rural area and have to take the car whenever you want to go anywhere? Just as an example, where I am sitting right now, I have more than 30 restaurants and cafés that I can reach within 5 minutes walk. If I don't mind walking a bit longer, or taking the subway a few stops, for a total traveltime of say 20…

Not joking at all. In the suburbs of a major Tier 2 city near Lake Michigan, via the interstate/toll system throughout said suburbs, I can cover ~60-80 miles per hour. How much can you cover in the city on foot, local roads, or public transit? I assure you, far less, having been exposed to Chicago Loop/West Loop/Bucktown/Ukrainian Village traffic and having to ride the L for a period of time (and occasional jaunts in…

> I can cover ~60-80 miles per hour.

You are totally missing the point. I don't have to cover 60-80 miles per hour, because everything I need and want on a daily basis is close. Where I'm living (Europe) the streets are safe and comfortable to walk and the public transportation is usually nice. I let my two year old ride on my shoulders on the walk to dinner, and he loves riding both buses and trains. And while we do that, I talk with him instead of having him strapped in in a back seat.

And I've had long commutes before. And I absolutely hated to lose 90 minutes a day of the little time I have left after work, sleep and chores. I'd much rather spend that time with my child.

Then I perfectly well understand that city-life isn't for everyone. It's great that you can get a big yard without bankrupting yourself. I've never argued that city-life is better than rural living in all aspects.

But you tried to argue that you have better access to entertainment and shopping because you can drive so fast from where you are. Don't expect anyone to take that seriously.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#175
post #44

Every time I visit my relatives in their rural area, I feel a sense of liberation. The air is cleaner, there is less noise, you can hear the breeze, and even the sky seems bigger. You can see the Milky Way at night. Coming from a city, it's a relief. However I also know the dark side of rural areas, mainly substance abuse triggered by boredom and lack of opportunity. There is always a trade-off.

That's not my experience with rural areas at all. Instead, it's usually pretty noisy because of all the neighbors with barking dogs (yes, there are neighbors in rural areas; most people can't afford 40 acres all to themselves, so they live in little clusters), and it stinks because of the cow and horse manure. Just hope you're not located close to a pig farm. And of course there's all the noisy trucks everyone drives…

We took care of our neighbors large barking dogs. An ultrasonic device fitted on the side of our house emits a sharp piercing noise when it hears a dog bark.

The dogs don't bark up our tree.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#176
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider: for pretty much any animal I'm aware of, there's a notion of the minimum amount of space it needs to live normally. Somehow for people we've convinced ourselves that there is no such minimum (or it's so small as to be absurd).

Cars have not been around that long. If humans are adapted for a particular density, it's one we managed on foot and horseback. That would put it much higher than contemporary America's legal limits. The masses were certainly not doing 15 mile daily commutes in the ancestral environment. If you're interested in the historical/humanistic perspective on urban planning more generally, check out the New Urbanists. Unders…

I agree that the settlements themselves would have been relatively dense. However, this is missing two critical elements: they were (a) tiny by modern standards, and (b) surrounded by vast expanses of open, uninhabited space. That meant that, while you wouldn't have necessarily had much in the way of privacy in your own dwelling, you could easily walk out of the village and seek solitude for as long and as often as you wanted. I think this makes a huge difference to social dynamics and we basically haven't properly coped with it since cities of any substantial size have existed.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#177
post #167
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, let's be real, the cops show up in cities pretty reliably. The drawback is that sometimes they do good for the situation, while a third of the time they end up shooting someone. Interesting you mention medivac insurance -- I spent a number of years in a very small town in rural west Texas and I've never heard of that. Numerous times I heard of the race to get someone to one of the towns with a hospital 45 minutes…

The other thing about hospitals is that, in a place like that, the nearest hospital is probably in the closest small city, but that hospital is staffed with incompetent doctors because who wants to work in a place like that? So if you have a real emergency, you want to go to a good hospital in a larger city, but that's much farther away.

That's a very short sighted opinion. There are plenty of very intelligent doctors that love to live in the countryside.

Due to the sheer larger numbers in urban areas, I'm sure you are likely to have the best of the best in cities, but everyone can't be treated by the top 1% of doctors.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#178
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not joking at all. In the suburbs of a major Tier 2 city near Lake Michigan, via the interstate/toll system throughout said suburbs, I can cover ~60-80 miles per hour. How much can you cover in the city on foot, local roads, or public transit? I assure you, far less, having been exposed to Chicago Loop/West Loop/Bucktown/Ukrainian Village traffic and having to ride the L for a period of time (and occasional jaunts in…

> I can cover ~60-80 miles per hour. You are totally missing the point. I don't have to cover 60-80 miles per hour, because everything I need and want on a daily basis is close. Where I'm living (Europe) the streets are safe and comfortable to walk and the public transportation is usually nice. I let my two year old ride on my shoulders on the walk to dinner, and he loves riding both buses and trains. And while we do…

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Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#179
post #177
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing about hospitals is that, in a place like that, the nearest hospital is probably in the closest small city, but that hospital is staffed with incompetent doctors because who wants to work in a place like that? So if you have a real emergency, you want to go to a good hospital in a larger city, but that's much farther away.

That's a very short sighted opinion. There are plenty of very intelligent doctors that love to live in the countryside. Due to the sheer larger numbers in urban areas, I'm sure you are likely to have the best of the best in cities, but everyone can't be treated by the top 1% of doctors.

No, it's not shortsighted at all. There aren't enough highly competent doctors to go around and staff all the rural hospitals. My mom lives in a smallish town (and it's at least a college town) with a hospital right down the street, and constantly has to travel to the nearest city for medical issues because the hospital doesn't have any decent doctors and all the specialists are in the city.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#180
post #156
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've walked all around Manhattan many times. No, it's not a constant, permeating stink, but that city does stink a lot, though it's worse of course when they put the trash out since NYC doesn't have alleys like other American cities. However, I haven't had the same experience in non-US cities like Tokyo and Munich. Those cities are just much, much cleaner in many ways than NYC, and it's not just the smell.

'Throwing' your trash out on the street every week is a solution to the trash problem which probably accounts for a lot of smell. I bet if they stopped doing that then it would improve a lot.

In NYC, they can't stop doing that. I read an article about this very thing not too long ago. The problem is that NYC (Manhattan actually) doesn't have alleys, like other American cities such as Chicago. So there's no place to put dumpsters or trash for trash crews to pick up, except right out on the curb in front.

More frequent pickups could alleviate the problem though.

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