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“It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

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201–210 of 384 posts

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#201
post #108

Pretty disappointed in PG's response: "I would ordinarily just let your bullshit go, but this myth that you have to be a rich kid to start a startup is terribly dangerous, because it discourages people who aren't from trying it. Brian Chesky's parents were social workers. That is not a rich kid." As if having two parents with stable jobs isn't considered a safety net. I agree, you don't need to be rich, but I also ag…

Typical tech industry nonsense. People stuck in a job because they need the health insurance? People saddled with massive debt because you’ll have a hard time getting hired to manage a McDonald’s without a college degree? Rent increases eating up disposable income? Meh. But being told by some rando on Twitter that you need a safety net to take a risk on a startup? “Incredibly dangerous”! Because if some people who mi…

>“Incredibly dangerous”!

Totally agree about how inane and insufferably out of touch this complaint is. As if today's now-totally-normalized tech company valuations, openly built on nothing more than cash bonfires, aren't dangerous at all.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undergrad programs are what, 3 to 4 years. That means enough money to replace 30 hour per week job for four years. With uncertain healthcare status. That is a lot of money. Over here studies are basically free, about 100 EUR incl. public transport per semester. And even then working full-time to be able to finance all of that is hard.

Health care is not needed. Undergrads are mostly young, and without kids. It is unusual for them to visit a doctor - maybe they get an infection, a $30 visit to a "minute clinic" and $20 in antibiotics, but that is a one time thing. For the cheaper universities you can support yourself working 30 hours a week, if you make your degree a 5 year program you can cut your classes down enough that you can live on your inco…

No health insurance? Sport accidents, serious illness, traffic accident, children,... Honestly, I still can't wrap my head around the fact someone would choose to live without coverage. That some are forced to in developed countries is shitty enough!

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which direction is causality flowing here, and how do you justify it? We didn't choose our brains––so how do we differentiate the privilege we got from our "class" from the traits we were born with? Does privilege imply that you got it from your "class"? This seems like a classic nature/nurture fallacy.

Do you really think someone's ending point as an adult is largely limited to their "brains"? Like, how are you going to completely exclude the upbringing environment and the scarcity and struggle for resources that some folks face.

It's not "what I think", it's what we know. One of the most well established facts in sociology is that IQ is the best predictor for life success: Firkowska-Mankiewicz, Anna, and Jerzyna Słomczyńska. Intelligence (IQ) as a Predictor of Life Success. https://www.jstor.org/stable/20628656

You reiterate my question in the second sentence: How do we weight these different privileges?

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#204
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it surprising? There’s a combination of blindness, and inflated sense of self worth. America romanticizes the “self-made man”, and so any help is discounted. (Famously, a $1M family loan in 1975 (4.8M in 2019 dollars) was described as “small”.) Not coincidentally, these is a strong correlation with ascribing their success to a meritocracy, even though luck has been repeatedly shown more influential factor in s…

It's romanticized because the majority of Americans had someone in their family throw caution to the wind and get on a boat and cross the Atlantic with zero knowledge of what was going to happen.

And you'd think Americans would think fondly of people who try and do that today, but instead we separate them from their kids then throw them all in internment camps.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's less risk today. If your company fails, you're in debt, but you probably won't die in a ditch. So why not jump feet first into what you want to do? To quote the eminent Shia LeBouf "It's you're life, don't let your dreams be dreams. Just do it"

Its easy to say platitudes from rich people. When there's little/no social net when you fail, failure is disastrous. I'm diabetic. I'm nearly chained to a company with a decent medical plan, since our "wonderful" country has little to impetus to fix medicine. So failing means 'not able to go to the doctor and not afford my drugs'. Failure also means 'not affording rent'. Failure also means being unemployed, and no wa…

Mr LaBeouf comes from a broken home. His father has struggled with drugs and alcohol to self medicate his Vietnam War PTSD. He started performing at age 10, pretended to be his own manager to get signed with an agency. He's exactly the "live without a net" kind of guy we're talking about.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#206
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't like 3 or 4 percent though. Starting a startup ranges from a largely risk free career move to impossible. Most people today start at negative. Want to live in a decent sized city? That's at least $2k a month. An education? Might very well be $50k in debt. Job security? Need to put in the hours young. Otherwise there is a very real chances of getting evicted, not being able to find a decent job, not being abl…

> An education? Might very well be $50k in debt. You can get a perfectly decent degree from your community college for very affordable prices. Likewise you may not be able to live in downtown manhattan, but you can probably live anywhere in a whole bunch of the square states on $1k a month.

For better or for worse, VCs need heuristics to filter the likelihood of you pulling off what you're claiming you can, and prestige and depth of education is one of those factors, as well as employment history which also selects on those education factors.

An associates from a community college isn't going to get you a meeting with a VC, nor is it going to get you past the resume screen at google to run around the education filter.

This is also able to be circumvented by network, which is very easy to do if you are already at a high end university which will hold your hand grooming you for meetings with VCs they introduced you to, or where you can at least just ask your friend from college for an intro.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An education? Might very well be $50k in debt. You can get a perfectly decent degree from your community college for very affordable prices. Likewise you may not be able to live in downtown manhattan, but you can probably live anywhere in a whole bunch of the square states on $1k a month.

How many YC founders went to community college?

Good question.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#208

The reality is that money lets you "take risks," and money gives you options (in this world). To be honest, I don't think that starting your company with the "risk" that you might move back in with your parents if it fails... is at all a meaningful risk.

All the risks are skewed to portray a traditionally projected hopeful image when the reality is: the risks are skewed against the average person.

Most start-ups (businesses in general) fail. Hard Work® and Dedication® will only get you so far in this country even though that's the garbage fed to many for generations. A great idea is certainly a good start, then ingenuity/creativity/follow-through go a long way, but many times, success comes down to dumb luck, timing and resources. For evidence, look no further than successful companies that push new product/service lines out which fail and are abandoned--it happens quite often.

The American Dream® often boils down to simply rolling the dice. It turns out, you can roll the dice more times if you have more money/wealth when you start to play the game. Everything that isn't the cost of the admission fee can be manufacturing new dice. Heck, with enough money, one can even purchase loaded/weighted dice from your local politicians but I digress.

For many, it's hard to roll the dice when you have to decide if you want food and housing or to play the game. Yes, rewards require risks, that's what our economic system encourages (and I agree with this approach) so one shouldn't be risk averse, but everyone needs to acknowledge that risk is a very relative/proportional quantity that needs to be considered for each case.

Relative risk for Jeff Bezos starting a local business (let's say a simple coffee shop) is not the same as the relative risk for your local barista turned manager wanting to take their years of Hardwork®, Dedication®, and intimate knowledge of the industry to spin up a business. If Bezos cafe fails, he probably didn't even realize it (a drop in the Olympic sized pool) but if your barista fails, they could be on the streets. Bezos can simply hire others with intimate knowledge and operate at a loss for far longer than your local barista can. They need to eat, perhaps their family does. Perpetuating this oversimplified view isn't good for our society and keeps tossing blame on otherwise productive citizens who simply weren't rewarded the same starting hand of cards and opportunities to seize.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undergrad programs are what, 3 to 4 years. That means enough money to replace 30 hour per week job for four years. With uncertain healthcare status. That is a lot of money. Over here studies are basically free, about 100 EUR incl. public transport per semester. And even then working full-time to be able to finance all of that is hard.

Health care is not needed. Undergrads are mostly young, and without kids. It is unusual for them to visit a doctor - maybe they get an infection, a $30 visit to a "minute clinic" and $20 in antibiotics, but that is a one time thing. For the cheaper universities you can support yourself working 30 hours a week, if you make your degree a 5 year program you can cut your classes down enough that you can live on your inco…

> Health care is not needed. Undergrads are mostly young, and without kids. It is unusual for them to visit a doctor.

Jesus Christ. Please don't take this as a personal attack but it boggles my mind that in 2019 this is a situation accepted as perfectly normal by a large number of people.

In many countries in the west, this is not even a question that arises. I assume you are based in the US?

That someone has to make a choice between potential financial ruin in case of an unforeseen illness or "saving" on insurance and staying solvent to pay for shelter and food in the most powerful country in the world beggars belief.

So what if I fall down some stairs and get multiple complicated fractures? I can just as well call it a day and shutter all my hopes for making it in life because the hospital bill will be punitive.

Sure, it's unlikely to happen, but the discussion here is about the fact that if a person has money (and insurance) then this would be "merely" a painful experience, whereas if they "saved" on insurance and paid for food, shelter and education instead then they are pretty much done for.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#210
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only data I can get is this: https://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/research/2009/04/educati... 93% had a degree, with 30% having a masters, That would suggest to me that you'd need a decent wedge of cash. Now, what is interesting, is that in 2016 at least, the US created gross 960k new companies (there is some smoothing here, so +- 100k) The UK created 460k. Seeing as how the UK is 60 million, versus 300 million pe…

Why do you need "a decent wedge of cash" to have a degree? There are plenty of universities that are affordable. For instance, City University of New York (CUNY) offers four year undergrad degrees for $6,730 a year [0]. You can get a room share in an outer borough for maybe 500 - 1.5k a month or Jersey for even less [1]. And this is one of the most expensive cities in the world. If you're smart, avoid unnecessary exp…

> Why do you need "a decent wedge of cash" to have a degree?

I can’t shake the feeling, though, that after a certain point, in certain (important) circles, “affordable” degrees (like the one I have) are effectively the same as having no degree at all.

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