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“It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

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Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#151

Post by TeMPOraL »

cbanek wrote: post #123
StavrosK wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, "I can't pay rent and I'll have to move to my parents' basement" and "I can't pay rent and I'll have to live on the street" are two very different ways of struggling to pay rent.

Exactly. In that in one of them, your landlord isn't likely to cover you, and is likely to kick you out, but your parents probably would cover the shortfall if they are able (at least for a couple of months). And if they aren't, you'll just go back home. On the other side, many young people end up having to help their parents make rent. They don't have the position to take on any of their own risk.

> On the other side, many young people end up having to help their parents make rent. They don't have the position to take on any of their own risk.

Yup. Dreaming about startups was all fun until I realized that I'm essentially providing for 5 people beyond myself, at which point I got super insecure about keeping my well-paying job.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#152

Post by throwaway55554 »

njepa wrote: post #29
rlue wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and would go a step further to say that the response to PG is woefully exaggerated. The fate of the poor is truly deplorable in the US, but that doesn't mean that every conversation about risk, opportunity, and entrepreneurship has to rise to the defense of the disadvantaged. PG is saying you don't have to be rich to launch a successful startup. By this, I believe he means private-school, summer-house, frequ…

> By this, I believe he means private-school, summer-house, frequent-flyer-miles-in-your-early-20s rich. The example given literally attended one of the top private art school in the world. The reason people are reacting is likely because of this often damaging non-differentiation of being temporarily and perpetually poor. Many people can't even afford to move to a city these days, let alone start a startup. And if t…

> Many people can't even afford to move to a city these days,

Or get pushed further away, as the middle class can't even afford it and they too have to move outwards, and have to commute in.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#153

Post by emsy »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #77
emsy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not even talking past each other (that would require a back and forth). Matthew responds to something pg didn't say.

If that’s the case, then Paul Graham chose a very poor subject as an example.

I agree, and he could and should have anticipated the reactions. But I read his clarifications and it looks like he argued with good intent.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#154

Post by throwaway55554 »

bubblewrap wrote: post #57

Most people, even poor people, have parents who would help them out in case of need. They seem to be discussing a pretty low bar here. And of course it is a "privilege" to have supporting parents. So what? If you don't have that privilege, what are you supposed to do? Kill yourself? I think such privilege discussions are rather silly. What's the point? That people should be showered with tax payer money to even out t…

> Most people, even poor people, have parents who would help them out in case of need.

No, they don't. You're thinking of lower middle class.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#155

Post by crankylinuxuser »

sfkdjf9j3j wrote: post #127
Tycho wrote: post #113

When someone uses the word “privilege” it’s a good indicator that the rest of the discussion is going to be a waste of time.

Can you elaborate on this?

Not parent.

But in my experience, but "privilege" usually relies on invoking stereotypes (males, females, white, etc) and then shutting down individuals by invoking that their discussion is just 'privilege'.

I saw a 'yelling over each other' thread on Facebook in which white feminists were being name-called by black feminists calling them names of various sorts for supporting only white rights. Any modicum of discussion was drowned out by chest-beating of lines of racism and sexism. I believe that thread is still going on.

"Mansplaining" is yet another term that does that on sex based grounds. The term "manspreading" is yet another term with a sexist root- as only men can sit down and spread their lags in relaxation.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#156

Post by nichos »

ldoughty wrote: post #150
cbanek wrote: post #108

Pretty disappointed in PG's response: "I would ordinarily just let your bullshit go, but this myth that you have to be a rich kid to start a startup is terribly dangerous, because it discourages people who aren't from trying it. Brian Chesky's parents were social workers. That is not a rich kid." As if having two parents with stable jobs isn't considered a safety net. I agree, you don't need to be rich, but I also ag…

Totally agree. I have great ideas of things to work on, but I'm essentially a single income household (my wife is in grad school, and her part time pay barely covers her education and school). I can't quit my job and work on a dream venture, who will pay for my wife's upcoming childbirth and related expenses? Who will ensure we can still make payments on our home and food? Living with parents is definitely a safety n…

This may come off rude, but I certainly don't mean it to be, but you have a choice to make. It sounds like you're chosing to have a kid and your wife go to school. If you want to do the startup, skip the kids, have your wife work and support you while you do the startup. Not everyone can have everything.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#157

Post by bluGill »

hef19898 wrote: post #70
bko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was replying to the specific claim that getting a degree requires a lot of money.

Undergrad programs are what, 3 to 4 years. That means enough money to replace 30 hour per week job for four years. With uncertain healthcare status. That is a lot of money. Over here studies are basically free, about 100 EUR incl. public transport per semester. And even then working full-time to be able to finance all of that is hard.

Health care is not needed. Undergrads are mostly young, and without kids. It is unusual for them to visit a doctor - maybe they get an infection, a $30 visit to a "minute clinic" and $20 in antibiotics, but that is a one time thing.

For the cheaper universities you can support yourself working 30 hours a week, if you make your degree a 5 year program you can cut your classes down enough that you can live on your income and have enough to pay for class. You don't get any "fun money", but all your time is focused on class so that won't matter. You are also living in the cheapest room you can find, and cooking your own meals of rice and beans (the cheapest food).

Maybe you don't want to live that way, but you could.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#158

Post by throwaway55554 »

kstenerud wrote: post #102

It's easy to take risks when there's little to lose. If the only fallout is wasting some family money and at worst delaying your entry-level career by a couple of years for some experience that many employers consider valuable anyway, there's little downside to throwing the dice.

> It's easy to take risks when there's little to lose.

> If the only fallout is wasting some family money and at worst delaying your entry-level career by a couple of years for some experience that many employers consider valuable anyway, there's little downside to throwing the dice.

This, in no way whatsoever, resembles the conditions of the poor.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#159

Post by snowwrestler »

PG seems worried that tweets saying you have to be rich to do a startup will discourage non-rich folks from trying a startup.

This doesn’t give those folks much credit. It implies that a few tweets will have a bigger impact on their decision-making than their own detailed understanding of the constraints and anxieties of their own lives.

I don’t think PG is in a good position to understand those constraints and anxieties. And he is somewhat incentivized not to, since YC benefits from having more startups to choose from. But YC does not experience significant downside on the startups that they reject or which fail. Unlike: the founders of those failed startups.

Re: “It’s hard to take risks if you don’t have a safety net”

#160

Post by bko »

cbanek wrote: post #108

Pretty disappointed in PG's response: "I would ordinarily just let your bullshit go, but this myth that you have to be a rich kid to start a startup is terribly dangerous, because it discourages people who aren't from trying it. Brian Chesky's parents were social workers. That is not a rich kid." As if having two parents with stable jobs isn't considered a safety net. I agree, you don't need to be rich, but I also ag…

This is a kind of No True Scotsman fallacy. Anyone that is successful was 'advantaged' because her family was rich, or she had two parents, or she had a parent, or she was born in America, or she was born with the right number of chromosomes... The whole conversation strikes me as just snarky and reductive. I don't see the point. Why not try to promote a conversation to lift people up and empower them rather than writing off the hard work and perseverance of others?
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