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China’s new ‘social credit system’

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Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#11

Post by arethuza »

johnchristopher wrote: post #8
Gys wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they do not realise what is coming? > '...one of the ways that people can improve their own social credit score is to report on the supposed misdeeds of others.'

Now, that's Orwellian. As described in the book. It's not the cameras, the government agents in the shadows or the spying technology... It's the end result of everyone spying on each other that made the world of 1984 so inescapable to Winston.

From what I remember of 1984 I don't think everyone was spied on all the time - it was mainly the Outer Party members (~13% of the population) who were scrutinized so closely as they were the source of potential threats to the Inner Party. Most of the characters in the book, apart from O'Brien, were Outer Party members.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#12

Post by rqs »

lelima wrote: post #2

Does anyone have visit China and presence the social system in first person? I've heard that some people like it (Chinese co-workers), as they feel everyone acting better, but they don't live in China at the moment.

How long your since co-workers been out of China? I'm in China right now but I don't think that system has changed people's behavior that much. Plus, I think it's stupid to put a score on everybody's head ("Oh, you're below 10, we can't be friend" stupid).

Based on my observation, people acting better usually because now they can and willing to, rather than been forced to.

In our city for example, we used to have many jaywalkers. But that number dropped since the administration constructed better pedestrian crossings (underground tunnels, foot bridge etc). People still jaywalking when those infrastructure is unavailable.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#13

Post by fuzzbuzz »

bsaul wrote: post #10

The only positive side is that china’s regime is comiting suicide with this system. Seems like nothing was learned from communist russia. Intellectuals will flee, then top scientists, nobody will trade with them anymore, political opponents will be sent to camp, until finally it will all collapse under economical meltdown. My only concern is that civilians don’t pay a too high price in the process.

Norway has just landed some major deals for exporting fish to China. And nor the goverment or the majority of the population seem to bother what China is doing. Money talks, while human rights are censored.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#14

Post by bsaul »

fuzzbuzz wrote: post #13
bsaul wrote: post #10

The only positive side is that china’s regime is comiting suicide with this system. Seems like nothing was learned from communist russia. Intellectuals will flee, then top scientists, nobody will trade with them anymore, political opponents will be sent to camp, until finally it will all collapse under economical meltdown. My only concern is that civilians don’t pay a too high price in the process.

Norway has just landed some major deals for exporting fish to China. And nor the goverment or the majority of the population seem to bother what China is doing. Money talks, while human rights are censored.

I don’t think the general public is aware on what’s going on in china in details. They think it’s still pretty ok. But the direction the country is taking is pretty clear, and we soon should hear about nightmarish events more and more. Once one major western country starts taking a public stance and back it up with actions, the others will follow.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#15

Post by [deleted] »

bsaul wrote: post #10

The only positive side is that china’s regime is comiting suicide with this system. Seems like nothing was learned from communist russia. Intellectuals will flee, then top scientists, nobody will trade with them anymore, political opponents will be sent to camp, until finally it will all collapse under economical meltdown. My only concern is that civilians don’t pay a too high price in the process.

[deleted]

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#16

Post by chupasaurus »

johnchristopher wrote: post #8
Gys wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they do not realise what is coming? > '...one of the ways that people can improve their own social credit score is to report on the supposed misdeeds of others.'

Now, that's Orwellian. As described in the book. It's not the cameras, the government agents in the shadows or the spying technology... It's the end result of everyone spying on each other that made the world of 1984 so inescapable to Winston.

Well, everyone would have a telescreen in their pocket. China has a big surveillance playground in Xinjiang region (paywalled: https://www.wsj.com/articles/twelve-days-in-xinjiang-how-chi...), including random microphone recordings.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#17

Post by cyphar »

johnchristopher wrote: post #8
Gys wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess they do not realise what is coming? > '...one of the ways that people can improve their own social credit score is to report on the supposed misdeeds of others.'

Now, that's Orwellian. As described in the book. It's not the cameras, the government agents in the shadows or the spying technology... It's the end result of everyone spying on each other that made the world of 1984 so inescapable to Winston.

I would argue the key aspect of something being Orwellian is the redefinition of language such that arguments against the government's position cannot be made anymore.

The idea of people being spied on by their neighbours in 1984 comes from real-world examples that Orwell was drawing on at the time (the Hitler Youth and the purges under Stalin). While it is very dystopian, I would classify it as being extreme totalitarianism and not Orwellian. Almost all recent totalitarian regimes I can think of had people informing on their neighbours.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#18

Post by anvandare »

pawelmurias wrote: post #9

Are the rules of what costs you social credit score available?

Probably (although it makes more sense for them to be vague) but you shouldn't really care about the paper rules anyway, instead here are the real rules:

Rule One: there are no rules.

Rule Two: you must pretend Rule One does not exist. Instead pretend that there is a set of clear, objective, and just rules that apply to everyone equally and fairly; that it is possible to live without ever violating a rule; that no one is above the rules; that the rules aren't made up on a need-to basis by the powerful.

Rule Three: arguing against the rules is against the rules.

Re: China’s new ‘social credit system’

#19

Post by duxup »

We've seen with Leica that China is willing to punish outside companies, they are willing to reach outside China and threaten Uighurs in Australia.

I wonder if we see the social credit system exported / applied to those outside China under the guise of security or good behavior as a sort of pay to play deal.

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