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“A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

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Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#241

Post by icebraining »

sam0x17 wrote: post #173
colejohnson66 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10 second clip of a movie isn’t necessarily fair use; It’s decided on a case by case basis. You can use as much as you need to get your point across; No more. If that’s 10 seconds, you can use 10 seconds. If that’s a minute, you can use a minute.

But if Google's lawyers took a stance on this, they could use precedent to set defined rules for what actually counts as fair use and all these claimants would be fucked.

Google doesn't get to decide what counts as fair use.

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#242

Post by icebraining »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #69
berrynice wrote: post #54

When do we get to the point where people start acknowledging how insane the entire concept of copyright is.

Copyright is necessary and isn’t the problem here. What is the problem is Youtube’s refusal to require any verification when a copyright claim is made. YouTube has essentially created a society that doesn’t abide by due process because it’s a virtual society and therefore isn’t required to follow the same laws that physical societies are held to. This is a symptom of a much more dangerous problem - as we exist more a…

The DMCA law itself says the host can't require any such verification, and if YT started requiring it for ContentID, the complainers could just start sending regular DMCA takedowns.

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#243

Post by icebraining »

sam0x17 wrote: post #142

Content-id has been designed to massively favor the claimants. It could have been designed in a fair-use-aware sort of way. Also a false report should = a copyright strike for all channels owned by the claimant.

Why wouldn't the claimant just switch to plain-old DMCA takedowns in that case?

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#244

Post by krapp »

sam0x17 wrote: post #129

I really don't understand why the process has been designed to assume the copyright claimant is in the right from the get-go when it's the claimants that abuse the system. If I was Google I'd have my lawyers aggressively pursue the legal feasibility of banning companies from submitting complaints if they abuse the complaint system (if not then ban the channels of companies who have their lawyers abuse the system) and…

>I really don't understand why the process has been designed to assume the copyright claimant is in the right from the get-go when it's the claimants that abuse the system.

If Youtube didn't allow claimants (who couldn't care less about "fair use" of their IP) vast and arbitrary power even to the point of abuse without consequence, those claimants would turn around and sue them into oblivion the way Viacom nearly did.

The system is doing precisely what it's intended to, which is to pay the Danegeld (of user content) to major media companies and not only keep Youtube alive, but make it attractive as a platform for officially licensed content.

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#245

Post by chii »

icebraining wrote: post #242
IAmGraydon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is necessary and isn’t the problem here. What is the problem is Youtube’s refusal to require any verification when a copyright claim is made. YouTube has essentially created a society that doesn’t abide by due process because it’s a virtual society and therefore isn’t required to follow the same laws that physical societies are held to. This is a symptom of a much more dangerous problem - as we exist more a…

The DMCA law itself says the host can't require any such verification, and if YT started requiring it for ContentID, the complainers could just start sending regular DMCA takedowns.

which is better, because regular DMCA claims comes with a legal repercussion risk - you cannot file a false DMCA claim without punishment from the law.

But youtube contentID claim is not DMCA, and has no punishment attached for a wrong claim.

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#246

Post by icebraining »

chii wrote: post #245
icebraining wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMCA law itself says the host can't require any such verification, and if YT started requiring it for ContentID, the complainers could just start sending regular DMCA takedowns.

which is better, because regular DMCA claims comes with a legal repercussion risk - you cannot file a false DMCA claim without punishment from the law. But youtube contentID claim is not DMCA, and has no punishment attached for a wrong claim.

As ryani points out in another comment[1], the punishable part is so narrow as to be irrelevant. Which is why nobody ever was punished for that.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19955838

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#247

Post by jasonlotito »

sam0x17 wrote: post #171
jasonlotito wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing they do can't be done with existing cloud networks and off-the-shelf open source software Please, link to this off-the-shelf open source software that can be used to replicate the YouTube experience, both in terms of hosting and playing videos as well as distribution on various platforms. I'll settle for Android and iOS.

ffmpeg, s3 (or google cloud storage or if you want affordable then wasabi), and HTML 5 video tags basically get you there -- search you can just use off-the-shelf elastic search stuff. It's not like it was in 2005 where you had to invent the wheel. Then you just set your subscription fee to match your average cost per user, add 50% to that, round up to the nearest dollar, and you're good.

So, frankly, you have nothing. Because none of that replicates the YouTube experience for both the producer and viewer. You also ignored delivery. Saying you can replicate YouTube with off-the shelf open source software and then proceed to provide me with common pieces that still need to be pieced together literally just don't know what "off-the-shelf" means.

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#248

Post by judge2020 »

ErikAugust wrote: post #199
makecheck wrote: post #186

Why do we have push-button screw-people-over systems at all? If the problem is that there are “too many” things for companies to review manually, too bad! If a company is perfectly fine raking in money from massive sales at a global scale, they should be willing to spend a proportional amount of money to do business at that scale. Let them hire their own people to review content in depth. Let them hire their own goon…

Google borders on insane with lacking any sort of manual support. For example, when you are a paid G Suite customer - you'll need to dig hard to find their support number. Then you'll need to click several buttons making it clear you still need support. You also need to then generate a PIN used to access the phone support.

In my experience it's not hard, maybe this is because i'm on a >50 user GSuite Business plan, but it goes like so:

1. admin console, click the question mark in the top right

2. "contact support" button is right on the front page

3. Choose live chat, phone, or email

4. enter your question

5. click "continue to phone" (can't blame them for trying to show relevant helpdesk articles first)

6. call the number and enter the pin

This is better than some customer support solutions, Many will bounce you back to the helpdesk homepage every chance they get, and the only way to actually get support is to email support@ or go to a special page (Tip: /hc/en-us/requests/new will work with most zendesk instances).

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#249

Post by jaredklewis »

makecheck wrote: post #186

Why do we have push-button screw-people-over systems at all? If the problem is that there are “too many” things for companies to review manually, too bad! If a company is perfectly fine raking in money from massive sales at a global scale, they should be willing to spend a proportional amount of money to do business at that scale. Let them hire their own people to review content in depth. Let them hire their own goon…

> Why do we have push-button screw-people-over systems at all?

Because that's the way our shitty representatives in congress wrote the legislation?

Google could face real legal consequences for not responding to a DMCA request. They can't face any legal consequences for complying with a false one (DMCA, or their internal contentId system).

And companies with the DMCA/ContentId bots sending in these bogus notices know that they too are safe. Because a victim would have to jump over the insanely high hurdle of proving the company knowingly misrepresented their ownership of the work. The company can easily claim that is was not intentional, but rather a mistake caused by a bug in their software.

If congress cared about this, they could fix it in a minute: false DMCA takedown request = fine, regardless of knowledge or intent.

Re: “A company is copyright-claiming every video I have ever made”

#250

Post by kaoD »

icebraining wrote: post #237
michaelmrose wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone literally stealing from creators needs to start generating expensive lawsuits for some percentage of cases not managed appropriately. This will inspire more concern on their part.

Except legally, Youtube has no obligation to host these videos, and can take them down on a whim. So a lawsuit has no leg to stand on. While, on the other hand, they do have an obligation to take copyright infringement complaints very seriously - in fact, ContentID came from one of those "expensive lawsuits". You need to change the law first.

> legally, Youtube has no obligation to host these videos, and can take them down on a whim

Well, maybe law has to change.

For example, in my country if you offer a service to the public you cannot refuse a customer for no reason. It's intended as an anti-discrimination law, but also as a way to protect customers from abuse.

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