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What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

nautil.us

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Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#191

Post by [deleted] »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #172
throwmex wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Indian, I too had this WTF moment. It makes me wonder why paper is still used in the western world. Makes one wonder if there is a TP lobby out there ? We used to make jokes what if a TP user have diarrhea, how many trees will that be ? If a bird shits on your hand will you use paper or water to clean it ? Its just that simple to comprehend. Just use water damn it. Cheap, hygienic, no left overs and green too !

> We used to make jokes what if a TP user have diarrhea, how many trees will that be ? Diarrhoea is pretty much water, so it cleans up with paper very well. > If a bird shits on your hand will you use paper or water to clean it ? That's a misleading analogy. Do you eat off your butt? If I got bird poo on my bare foot, I'd wipe it off in the dirt and move on. Most people shower every few days anyway. I don't care how…

[deleted]

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#192

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

L_226 wrote: post #180
nextos wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bidets are quite common in France and Spain, but I haven't seen many anywhere else in EU. A really practical solution to simulate a real bidet is to buy bidet cleansing foam and/or a portable bidet. You spray the cleansing foam into regular toilet paper, and it does improve performance a lot . Afterwards, just use the portable bidet.

Italians are quite keen on bidets. My (Italian) partner always complains about the lack of bidets here in Germany (and anywhere else we go).

Rightfully soo.. the forrest cut for the butts stinks to heaven.

Germany should have bidets like any other civilized country.

I dare to mention, that a lot of bidet development has to do, with the lack of piping that could handle large congesting cellular clumps of matter.

So - the more recent the canalisation - and the bigger the pipesizes used, the less need for biddets.

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#193

Post by lostapathy »

fulafel wrote: post #183
lostapathy wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much energy is used to make TP and transport it to your local store?

Sure, there's that. Otoh the water will alo have a big energy footprint before heating in the avg municipal water service case. But these things don't really change the order of magnitude energy difference that exists in the setup. I got curious and did a napkin calculation. A sheet of TP weights 1.5 grams and you might generously use 10 sheets per visit. Assuming fuel properties of wood, that's 250 kJ of heat energy…

There’s a lot of water and energy used turning trees into paper as well that this neglects.

Also just thinking about how much energy is in the TP doesn’t account for shipping it around at all.

I have no idea what the energy balance is, i just think this thread had vastly oversimplified.

Even the water volume may or may not be an issue. If you live somewhere that water is precious it’s a much different concern than if your location uses surface water that just ends up back in the same river downstream after a trip through your plumbing, for example.

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#194

Post by wetha »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #172
throwmex wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Indian, I too had this WTF moment. It makes me wonder why paper is still used in the western world. Makes one wonder if there is a TP lobby out there ? We used to make jokes what if a TP user have diarrhea, how many trees will that be ? If a bird shits on your hand will you use paper or water to clean it ? Its just that simple to comprehend. Just use water damn it. Cheap, hygienic, no left overs and green too !

> We used to make jokes what if a TP user have diarrhea, how many trees will that be ? Diarrhoea is pretty much water, so it cleans up with paper very well. > If a bird shits on your hand will you use paper or water to clean it ? That's a misleading analogy. Do you eat off your butt? If I got bird poo on my bare foot, I'd wipe it off in the dirt and move on. Most people shower every few days anyway. I don't care how…

>> If a bird shits on your hand will you use paper or water to clean it ?

>That's a misleading analogy. Do you eat off your butt? If I got bird poo on my bare foot, I'd wipe it off in the dirt and move on. Most people shower every few days anyway. I don't care how clean my butt is, just as long as it doesn't smell and it doesn't itch.

I think this hits at the root of the disagreement. If I get bird poo on my bare foot, I am totally washing that off with water - i am not comfortable wiping it off with paper and then tracking that onto my hand/clothes. To each their own. I believe it is harder to get your butt not to stink or itch when just using paper. I use water/soap when possible, and fallback to paper when not, usually public washrooms - so I’m familiar with both, if that needs saying.

> (FYI, in English, a space is only used after end-of-sentence punctuation, not before. I've never understood why Indians consistently get this wrong.)

Interesting generalization. I haven’t seen too many Indians do that. But as long as you get the point the OP was trying to make.

Disclaimer: Am Indian.

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#195

Post by fian »

tptacek wrote: post #160
yial wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mangos are better. But fruit that doesn’t come in a wrapper, due to the water exposure and things can be somewhat dubious quality at times. (By wrapper I mean a skin that’s removable). Potatoes and eggplant generally tasted the same to me, as did carrots. Jackfruit is much better in India too. Interesting note about the chicken, and this is anecdotal, but I’m pretty sure the chickens are a different bread then what w…

They almost certainly are a different breed; there are a bunch of chicken breeds indigenous to India. The are Indian chickens bred for egg-laying and those for meat. Also, the age of the chicken when slaughtered is a pretty big factor in how much flavor it has, as is the diet, which is probably the major reason supermarket CAFO chicken is flavorless. Obviously, another problem America has with chicken is its addictio…

To understand why the US breeds are different to other countries, have a read of:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/future-of-foo...

It describes a competition to breed large breasted chickens in the US, post WW2. The downside to that larger breasts is a decrease in flavour.

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#196

Post by rayiner »

m2mdas2 wrote: post #184
rayiner wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shutki mach. Mangoes. People having kids and families living together.

Oh sorry you were talking about Shutki fish.

Yes: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjw...

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#197

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #160
yial wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mangos are better. But fruit that doesn’t come in a wrapper, due to the water exposure and things can be somewhat dubious quality at times. (By wrapper I mean a skin that’s removable). Potatoes and eggplant generally tasted the same to me, as did carrots. Jackfruit is much better in India too. Interesting note about the chicken, and this is anecdotal, but I’m pretty sure the chickens are a different bread then what w…

They almost certainly are a different breed; there are a bunch of chicken breeds indigenous to India. The are Indian chickens bred for egg-laying and those for meat. Also, the age of the chicken when slaughtered is a pretty big factor in how much flavor it has, as is the diet, which is probably the major reason supermarket CAFO chicken is flavorless. Obviously, another problem America has with chicken is its addictio…

Another factor is that the fancy chicken just wasn’t a thing 30 years ago, at least in suburban VA where I was. Either I’ve gotten used to it, or Whole Foods chicken is markedly better. (I even enjoy a nice pan fried chicken breast these days.)

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#198

Post by beatgammit »

muzani wrote: post #189
Aeolun wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but how does ‘water and soap’ work? I can immediately see the application of a tersorium, but not water and soap.

Use a small hose to wash off the stuff. Use soap, a hand, and water to wash off anything remaining.

In the Philippines, we didn't have fancy hoses most of the time, so we just leaned over, poured water down the crack, and used our hands to knock off anything that didn't fall on its own. We'd then wash our hands thoroughly afterward, usually using alcohol and lotion to sanitize.

That sounds disgusting, but is it really more disgusting than the stuff toilet paper leaves behind? A friend of mine once explained, "you wouldn't use a dry rag to get peanut butter out of carpet, you'd use water and potentially some soap, so why is the bathroom any different"? I don't know about others here, but I'd rather be clean than have little bits of feces being carried around all day, and I already touch poop fairly regularly since I have small children in diapers, so it's really not that gross to me anymore.

Here in the states, I use toilet paper again, but that's not because I prefer it, but because people here don't have small buckets or bidets (and I'm not bringing one with me), and I feel those disposable wet wipes for bathrooms are too wasteful.

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#199

Post by beatgammit »

throwayEngineer wrote: post #154
firekvz wrote: post #105

Funny story, as a Venezuelan and having toilet paper shortages I was forced to go water and soap. Never comming back, not even with all the toilet paper in the world The feeling is shared with alot of friends (we joke about this as a way to keep the good mood agains the crisis) but a lot of people have realized that toilet paper is not the correct way plus a huge waste of money (we have to pay around 0.5$ per roll no…

Bidets are cold water? And you need a "rag"?

You can get heated bidets if that's your thing (just mix the hot and cold water pipes), and a rag is to help you dry off afterward.

When I lived in the Philippines and used a bucket and my hand (and yes, alcohol afterward to disinfect), I didn't bother with a rag because it was so hot and I'd dry off quickly anyway. However, in fancier places with bidets, a rag to dry off after is completely normal. And it's just as sanitary as using a hand towel after washing your hands because you're already clean.

Re: What Ancient Romans Used Instead of Toilet Paper

#200

Post by beatgammit »

blub wrote: post #136
pkd wrote: post #35

I'm still surprised how many people here get defensive when it gets pointed out that toilet paper is not the best solution for cleaning up. Everybody should try using a bidet sometime and see the difference for themselves.

It's not the best, but it works pretty great in the end: one is reasonably clean until one can properly clean themselves. It's available everywhere (not just at home), easy to carry and easy to dispose of. Wet wipes are a nice upgrade for those that can't stand the thought of TP, although they're usually not that easy to dispose of when not at home.

And wet wipes are kind of expensive and wasteful. A bidet is just so much simpler (jet of water cleans you, washable rag dries you).

Honestly, I don't get what the big deal is. People latch on to a solution that still leaves something behind, when another solution is both cheaper and more effective (and eliminates the occasional itching you get if you didn't do a good job with TP). My only complaint is that there not common.

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