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Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

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Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#91

Post by ekianjo »

mikeash wrote: post #4
verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? I see no problem with exhuming a corpse to solve a murder case as long as there’s probable cause and a warrant, which there was here.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains?

Consider how your family members might feel about it? It's not just about dead you.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#92

Post by qwsxyh »

ekianjo wrote: post #91
mikeash wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? I see no problem with exhuming a corpse to solve a murder case as long as there’s probable cause and a warrant, which there was here.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Consider how your family members might feel about it? It's not just about dead you.

It is only about dead me. It's my body.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#93

Post by jobigoud »

carbocation wrote: post #53
ebg13 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. Are you saying that it's wrong for the state to grant search warrants in the course of investigating murders? Because it seems to me that the alternative is that then all one needs to do to never be convicted of a crime is to just not consent to being investigated. So which is the lesser problem, invading privacy with a warrant or never being able to prosecute any crimes?

Are you replying with questions that imply I said something that I never said? Edit : At the time of my reply, the prior post read (in its entirety): I don't understand. Are you saying that it's wrong for the state to grant search warrants in the course of investigating murders? I won't be replying to further posts in this thread.

His first question was "even with a warrant?" Which you replied to with another question. As I see it he's asking you to clarify your initial statement. No need to get all defensive.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#94

Post by bpchaps »

qwsxyh wrote: post #92
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Consider how your family members might feel about it? It's not just about dead you.

It is only about dead me. It's my body.

Do you seriously think that you're the only person who cares about what happens to your body after you die? Would you be perfectly okay if somebody dug up your mother's body and did $AWFUL_THING with it?

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#95

Post by IshKebab »

mkl wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why didn't they attempt this kind of matching in the first place? There is no palm print database.

But there was reason to suspect him, so could they not have looked at the evidence from his other crimes?

That crime was several years later.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#96

Post by shrikant »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

You say

> Such arguments are usually emotional [...]

But start off your comment with

> I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect.

I guess I'm struggling to see the non-emotional component of your feeling disconcerted. Would you mind clarifying?

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#97

Post by [deleted] »

ljf wrote: post #88
droithomme wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why police gather all kinds of evidence and present it to a jury. There was no jury evaluating evidence and deciding guilt or innocence in this case. There was also no case. Only a proclamation of guilt against a man who died long ago and had no ability to defend himself, no defense attorney assigned, no arguments made before a jury whatsoever. The only "forensic" evidence made by some dodgy startup pushing…

Did you not read that they dug him up to do a full dna analysis to compare to seen found in the victims underwear? And that there was other evidence to link him which is what led to the permission to exhume him? The only reason that this wasn't taken further is as he was dead.

[deleted]

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#98

Post by maxheadroom »

saagarjha wrote: post #5

Getting your DNA sequenced is a bit like letting an app have access to your contacts: in both, your choice has consequences for hundreds of other people. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it’s possible to undo the effects of something your friends/family might have done :/

>Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it’s possible to undo the effects of something your friends/family might have done :/

To further your analogy, one could make a comparative to Cambridge Analytica - where your Facebook data could have been harvested through the seemingly innocuous behaviour of your friend(s).

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#99

Post by Dylan16807 »

droithomme wrote: post #42
verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

I agree with what you say but more interesting to me is that the way DNA is used in forensics is pseudoscientific nonsense, along with bite and footprint matching. As a separate issue, this guy is dead and has no ability to defend himself in court such as by providing an alibi. In the Golden State Killer case, the first "match" they found in their cold hit/blind match search (using an extremely small number of 9 to 1…

It's not lying to call someone guilty based on sufficiently high non-court standards. Sometimes things skip courts, sometimes the prosecutor doesn't do their job, sometimes courts or juries get it wrong.

> They shrugged, kept looking, and found some other guy who didn't have an alibi.

And based on that, they got a search warrant.

Don't imply that their claim is based on the preliminary test.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#100

Post by icebraining »

jacquesm wrote: post #81
vkou wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Because our society believes in body autonomy, to the point that it won't use your body's organs to save other human beings, without your express consent. Your body is your property, and it takes a damn good reason for someone else to access your property, contrary to your will.

> it won't use your body's organs to save other human beings, without your express consent No longer true here in NL: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/14/health/new-dutch-law-orga...

Yeah, opt-out is quite common nowadays - Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Belgium, Austria, Colombia, Chile, etc. I think in some cases the family must still be consulted.
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