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Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

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Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#81

Post by jacquesm »

vkou wrote: post #59
mikeash wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? I see no problem with exhuming a corpse to solve a murder case as long as there’s probable cause and a warrant, which there was here.

> If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? Because our society believes in body autonomy, to the point that it won't use your body's organs to save other human beings, without your express consent. Your body is your property, and it takes a damn good reason for someone else to access your property, contrary to your will.

> it won't use your body's organs to save other human beings, without your express consent

No longer true here in NL:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/14/health/new-dutch-law-orga...

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#82

Post by jacquesm »

xfitm3 wrote: post #49
freedomben wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree. The "if just one person is saved" argument and "why do I care about privacy if I'm doing nothing wrong" are the worst. I try very hard to keep emotion out of arguments but those two really trigger me and make it hard to stay calm. I'm deeply concerned about the potential surveillance state that is emerging. I just read an article about a smart city attempt in Toronto that is becoming a nightmare. There ha…

Have you been to Shenzhen lately? You must swipe your ID card before buying a train pass, mandatory random police checkpoints, tens of thousands of cameras+facial recognition laser scanners. All in the name of "reducing crime". It's complete bullshit. Crime stats are pumped up and these measures are slowly introduced with little to no pushback from citizens.

There is a book by Ira Levin called 'This Perfect Day', it contains some scenes that are pretty much what you describe.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#83

Post by veidr »

mindcrime wrote: post #70
mikeash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, but I’m still going to question it when someone bases a comment on it. In any case, the second half of my comment should apply just as well for such folks. We allow much worse things with a warrant, even from that perspective.

I have, but I’m still going to question it when someone bases a comment on it. And what do you hope to accomplish by doing so?

Furthering the cause of logic and reasonability? Advocating for evidence-based forensic science winning out over superstition and other lesser concerns?

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#84

Post by mirimir »

There are further implications.

For example, since WWII, there have been huge efforts to identify and locate war criminals. So now, where there's DNA evidence, that could continue, even though such criminals had died. And in future wars, combatants will perhaps make efforts to retain DNA evidence.

Having war be less anonymous is arguably a great thing.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#85

Post by mindcrime »

veidr wrote: post #83
mindcrime wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have, but I’m still going to question it when someone bases a comment on it. And what do you hope to accomplish by doing so?

Furthering the cause of logic and reasonability? Advocating for evidence-based forensic science winning out over superstition and other lesser concerns?

Furthering the cause of logic and reasonability? Advocating for evidence-based forensic science winning out over superstition and other lesser concerns?

Calling somebody out over something incredibly subjective, on an HN comment, seems like a terribly weak effort towards that end.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#86

Post by thaumasiotes »

firstplacelast wrote: post #76
seniorivn wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I love that this is downvoted. LOL. I'm all for vaccination, but you are 100% correct.

https://reason.com/2019/05/10/broader-implications-of-my-bod...

The list is pretty extensive. Women aren't exactly being singled out for special treatment overall, though they certainly are in multiple specifics.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#87

Post by 13of40 »

cletus wrote: post #77
paxys wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "pseudoscience" but literally how everything is investigated, DNA or not. There is always a process of elimination, strong vs weak evidence, probable cause, and many more factors. Audio/video surveillance, alibis, even eyewitness reports and just about everything else can be unreliable, incorrect or faked. That's why police gather all kinds of evidence and present it to a jury.

The poster you're replying to is referring to the misuse of statistics, essentially. Think about it this way: it's not amazing that someone wins the lottery. It'd be pretty amazing if a specific person won the lottery (statistically speaking). Here's where DNA evidence shines: through other means you have a suspect or a short list of suspects and you use DNA evidence from the crime scene to eliminate suspects or conc…

It's not even really a "hash" in the sense that there's no predictable relationship of the outputs of similar inputs. The "hash" of my DNA is going to be far more similar to people in Seattle than to people in Tokyo, so it becomes far less meaningful to say my DNA matched and I was Seattle at the time.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#88

Post by ljf »

droithomme wrote: post #67
paxys wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "pseudoscience" but literally how everything is investigated, DNA or not. There is always a process of elimination, strong vs weak evidence, probable cause, and many more factors. Audio/video surveillance, alibis, even eyewitness reports and just about everything else can be unreliable, incorrect or faked. That's why police gather all kinds of evidence and present it to a jury.

> That's why police gather all kinds of evidence and present it to a jury. There was no jury evaluating evidence and deciding guilt or innocence in this case. There was also no case. Only a proclamation of guilt against a man who died long ago and had no ability to defend himself, no defense attorney assigned, no arguments made before a jury whatsoever. The only "forensic" evidence made by some dodgy startup pushing…

Did you not read that they dug him up to do a full dna analysis to compare to seen found in the victims underwear? And that there was other evidence to link him which is what led to the permission to exhume him?

The only reason that this wasn't taken further is as he was dead.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#89

Post by emily2749 »

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Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#90

Post by NeedMoreTea »

mikeash wrote: post #4
verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

If you’re dead, what do you care what happens to your remains? I see no problem with exhuming a corpse to solve a murder case as long as there’s probable cause and a warrant, which there was here.

It's not like it's a new development either - police and justice systems around the world have long had the possibility, and right, to ask to exhume a body to further an investigation. It has most often been the victim historically.

So I don't see why this would be viewed as any different.

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