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Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

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Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#21

Post by skookumchuck »

berkut wrote: post #17
skookumchuck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you take a life you forfeit any more rights you have When you're convicted of it. Not before. > bring closure This seems to be a very recent thing. First off, I don't think the justice system is meant to "bring closure" to the victims, whatever that means. And secondly, if someone close to me was murdered, I seriously doubt that "closure" would make me feel any better about it.

> This seems to be a very recent thing. First off, I don't think the justice system is meant to "bring closure" to the victims, whatever that means. And secondly, if someone close to me was murdered, I seriously doubt that "closure" would make me feel any better about it. As someone who had a parent murdered ~15 years ago and still doesn't know for certain what happened, I can tell you that personally the fact that I…

I am sorry for what happened to you. But can you know in advance what having further information would do to your feelings? And there'll always be gaps in that information, even in the case the article was about.

For example, when my father died, I was presented with the option of having an autopsy done to find out just what had killed him. I declined, because it wouldn't change anything. He was just as gone, I'd miss him just as much, and I'd still think about him every day.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#23

Post by berkut »

skookumchuck wrote: post #21
berkut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems to be a very recent thing. First off, I don't think the justice system is meant to "bring closure" to the victims, whatever that means. And secondly, if someone close to me was murdered, I seriously doubt that "closure" would make me feel any better about it. As someone who had a parent murdered ~15 years ago and still doesn't know for certain what happened, I can tell you that personally the fact that I…

I am sorry for what happened to you. But can you know in advance what having further information would do to your feelings? And there'll always be gaps in that information, even in the case the article was about. For example, when my father died, I was presented with the option of having an autopsy done to find out just what had killed him. I declined, because it wouldn't change anything. He was just as gone, I'd mis…

I think so: it's actually not so much regarding the victim, but the fact that a life was taken via murder (which wouldn't have happened otherwise), and it's possible the guilty party has gotten away with it (and I might even know them) plays on my mind.

It's basically the uncertainty in terms of the who, what (although this answer is fairly evident) and why. Who for me is the big one.

I suspect if I knew for certain who was responsible, I could at least put it behind me. I accepted the "they're gone" part years ago, but not knowing who did it (for certain) at least in my case is extremely annoying (and is the same with other relatives incidentally).

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#24

Post by rootusrootus »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

I have a problem with the recent practice of using innocuous places like ancestry.com as a tool to find murderers through their familial relationships. Definitely I think we need to see some more regulation there.

But, as a separate issue, when there is enough evidence to convince a judge to sign a warrant, I do not have an objection to exhuming a body. I have to trust the judicial system to handle this sanely.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#25

Post by carbocation »

ebg13 wrote: post #18
carbocation wrote: post #8

The use of DNA in ways not anticipated by informed [1] consent is wrong. 1 = Not just a signature on the form. But a real understanding of what we're going to use it for.

Even with a warrant?

How well were the participants informed about how warrants would be used to access their information?

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#26

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

skookumchuck wrote: post #21
berkut wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems to be a very recent thing. First off, I don't think the justice system is meant to "bring closure" to the victims, whatever that means. And secondly, if someone close to me was murdered, I seriously doubt that "closure" would make me feel any better about it. As someone who had a parent murdered ~15 years ago and still doesn't know for certain what happened, I can tell you that personally the fact that I…

I am sorry for what happened to you. But can you know in advance what having further information would do to your feelings? And there'll always be gaps in that information, even in the case the article was about. For example, when my father died, I was presented with the option of having an autopsy done to find out just what had killed him. I declined, because it wouldn't change anything. He was just as gone, I'd mis…

I don't believe either of you is presenting a convincing argument that the other is wrong.

It seems quite plausible to me that some portion of people will be affected by not-knowing what happened, and some portion of people less so.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#27

Post by ebg13 »

carbocation wrote: post #25
ebg13 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with a warrant?

How well were the participants informed about how warrants would be used to access their information?

The state has decided that you don't need to be informed in advance that a warrant will let them search through your things. The whole point of a warrant is that it lets them search. "I didn't know they could look inside my bag" isn't a legal defense.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#28

Post by m-p-3 »

saagarjha wrote: post #5

Getting your DNA sequenced is a bit like letting an app have access to your contacts: in both, your choice has consequences for hundreds of other people. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it’s possible to undo the effects of something your friends/family might have done :/

For me it was a choice between privacy and not knowing who my distant relatives might be since my father was adopted and never searched for his biological parents.

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#29

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

stirlo wrote: post #6
verisimilitudes wrote: post #2

I find it disconcerting that someone's remains would be violated due to being a murder suspect. This is one of many reasons to have your remains cremated, I suppose. It also avoids wasting space in a graveyard and whatnot. I'm beginning to seriously hear people discuss that it's perfectly okay to use DNA people submit in these ways and even that it would be okay for the government to collect trash and other things th…

When you take a life you forfeit any more rights you have, if there’s probable cause and a warrant and it can bring closure to the victims then it’s 100% acceptable.

> When you take a life you forfeit any more rights you have

Any rights? I firmly believe you still have the right to not be tortured. Can you think of any others?

Re: Seattle police use family DNA, latest science to identify killer 52 years later

#30

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

m-p-3 wrote: post #28
saagarjha wrote: post #5

Getting your DNA sequenced is a bit like letting an app have access to your contacts: in both, your choice has consequences for hundreds of other people. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it’s possible to undo the effects of something your friends/family might have done :/

For me it was a choice between privacy and not knowing who my distant relatives might be since my father was adopted and never searched for his biological parents.

And what did you choose?
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