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I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

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Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#31

Post by askafriend »

benologist wrote: post #13
askafriend wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument isn't to excuse Foxconn. It's to point out that we're having this discussion at the wrong zoom level. There are complex geopolitical, social, and economic factors involved. In the system that exists, Foxconn is actually one of the better if not best actors. But of course HN wants to boil it down to Apple cutting a check to Foxconn employees because iPhone. Yes let's severely gimp a domestic company that g…

I don't really see how this is about Foxconn. Foxconn only hires those people for Apple and Apple only have Foxconn do it because they'd have to pay more to do it themselves. How much they're paid is dictated by Apple. I think there's some parallel with Uber's contractor-vs-employee situation but it's much more apparent when you consider these people are exclusively working on Apple devices, within Apple's supply cha…

"If not to buy Apple, what’s the substitute – Samsung? Don’t you know that Samsung’s products are from its OEM factory in Tianjin? Samsung workers’ income and benefits are even worse than those at Foxconn. If not to buy iPad – (do you think) I will buy Android Pad? Have you ever been to the OEM factories for Lenovo and ASUS? Quanta, Compaq … factories of other companies are all worse than those for Apple. Not to buy iPod – (do you think) I will buy Aigo, Meizu? Do you know that Aigo’s Shenzhen factory will not pay their workers until the 19th of the second month? If you were to quit, fine, I’m sorry, your salary will be withdrawn. Foxconn never dares to do such things. First, their profit margin is higher than peers as they manufacture for Apple. Second, at least those foreign devils will regularly audit factories. Domestic brands will never care if workers live or die. I am not speaking for Foxconn. I am just speaking as an insider of this industry, and telling you some disturbing truth"

- Anonymous Chinese Worker

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/many-...

Again, I don't point this out because I think the conditions are OK. I simply point this out to provide context and relativity to the situation. Do you really think Apple is responsible for fixing China's problems? I don't think so. But they DO take responsibility and have made strides in improving conditions for workers that work on their products. And that, I can appreciate.

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#32

Post by jjtheblunt »

devoply wrote: post #21
erentz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on. It’s not just racist hiring policies. We have companies here that are doing business in a country that is putting millions of people of a certain ethnicity in concentration camps. That really is not being talked about enough.

Yes and we are talking about Apple which has 245 billion dollars cash on hand yet is paying workers $272 / month. Where we can hardly blame workers for what China is doing, we definitely can hold Apple to account for what it's doing. This is the sort of shit Marx was referring to as ripping the workers off surplus value in the beginning of the industrial age. Socially conscious my ass.

Entirely wrong : that's not Apple doing that, and, having spent years as an engineer at Apple, it's a huge priority to be ethical and good. i'm serious.

Why not move elsewhere? The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there, and perform work on a contract basis for many companies, Apple included, Dell, and so on.

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#33

Post by MegaButts »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #32
devoply wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and we are talking about Apple which has 245 billion dollars cash on hand yet is paying workers $272 / month. Where we can hardly blame workers for what China is doing, we definitely can hold Apple to account for what it's doing. This is the sort of shit Marx was referring to as ripping the workers off surplus value in the beginning of the industrial age. Socially conscious my ass.

Entirely wrong : that's not Apple doing that, and, having spent years as an engineer at Apple, it's a huge priority to be ethical and good. i'm serious. Why not move elsewhere? The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there, and perform work on a contract basis for many companies, Apple included, Dell, and so on.

I realize it's a complicated subject, but if ethics was as high a priority as you were saying why wouldn't they simply move those jobs somewhere else with lower margins?

EDIT: Since you edited your comment instead of responding to mine, yes China is the only country that can currently support Apple's manufacturing needs. But if Apple actually felt it was unethical to work with China for whatever reason they could begin the process to have factories set up elsewhere, even in the United States or Mexico, within a few years. It would obviously impact their profit margins, but you are arguing that ethics is a "huge priority" while providing nothing substantive to back up that claim.

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#34

Post by jhayward »

z3t4 wrote: post #20

These workers are basically human robots, but they are not only faster and more accurate then robots, they are much cheaper!

> they are not only faster and more accurate then robots, they are much cheaper!

That's why they still hire humans. If the above statement wasn't true, they would be replaced with a robotic system.

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#35

Post by claudiawerner »

abalone wrote: post #3

> A poster in an agency describes job qualification for Foxconn workers: age between 16 and 40, ninth-grade diploma, no Tibetan and Uygur ethnicities. Many damning things in the report but this straight up racism demands a firm response from Apple.

If you don't mind me pointing out the irony here: this is the epitome of "woke capital" - the issue isn't the inhumanly low wages, it's that the company policy is discriminatory towards who it will pay those wages...

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#36

Post by wswkb »

azhenley wrote: post #30
wswkb wrote: post #22

Without knowing what the median salary per hour is in that part of China, this is just rage-bait.

> Foxconn is known for its high staff turnover, largely because of the low monthly salary of 2,100 yuan per month (US$313) in Zhengzhou. By comparison, the average salary in the city of Zhengzhou in 2018 was 6,929 yuan (US$1,035) per month.

Then either they won't fill the positions or the average salary is too high. (And I asked for median, not average)

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#38

Post by throwas1984 »

abalone wrote: post #3

> A poster in an agency describes job qualification for Foxconn workers: age between 16 and 40, ninth-grade diploma, no Tibetan and Uygur ethnicities. Many damning things in the report but this straight up racism demands a firm response from Apple.

While I as European fully agree with your point of view, I think that projecting our world perspective on other countries is just bs.

Fight with racism is purely white peoples concept. Racism is a term usually doesn't even exist outside of Europe/North America. So we shouldn't try to put our mentality on top of China, as we are not the sole source of truth in this world.

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#39

Post by tomcam »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #32
devoply wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and we are talking about Apple which has 245 billion dollars cash on hand yet is paying workers $272 / month. Where we can hardly blame workers for what China is doing, we definitely can hold Apple to account for what it's doing. This is the sort of shit Marx was referring to as ripping the workers off surplus value in the beginning of the industrial age. Socially conscious my ass.

Entirely wrong : that's not Apple doing that, and, having spent years as an engineer at Apple, it's a huge priority to be ethical and good. i'm serious. Why not move elsewhere? The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there, and perform work on a contract basis for many companies, Apple included, Dell, and so on.

> The only factories able to produce the required volumes are, by virtue of great planning by China, there

I take a nuanced view of these things. I understand that in vast swathes of rural China job opportunities like this were until recently the only way to make a decent living for many people (most of my family is Asian, and I have investments there). And I also know that most companies could not in fact replicate that technology.

But Apple is rubbing everyone’s nose in their social virtue. If they really believed what they were saying they could definitely replicate a factory like Foxconn’s in Texas for, say, $100 billion. Dell couldn’t, HP probably couldn’t, but they aren’t telling me how to live my life either.

Re: I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble iPhones for $1.7 per hour

#40

Post by howcomeno1asks »

abalone wrote: post #3

> A poster in an agency describes job qualification for Foxconn workers: age between 16 and 40, ninth-grade diploma, no Tibetan and Uygur ethnicities. Many damning things in the report but this straight up racism demands a firm response from Apple.

Curious how no one here is asking "WHY don't they want Uygurs or Tibetans?"

I wonder if it could be due to the bombings [1] and mass-stabbings [2] these people carry out against Han Chinese from time to time. And the fact that Foxconn workers are primarily Han Chinese.

Of course it might also be because Foxconn is run by race-haters who hate Uygurs for their Turkic features and are jealous of Tibetans for their high altitude hemoglobin adaptations. Can't rule that one out. Might have nothing to do with bombings/stabbings.

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/bomb-blast-in-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack

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